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CarpeGuitarrem
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:34 pm
Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Posts: 3361 Location: Franciscan University of Steubenville
fingolfin wrote:
The general puplic has a right to send in their own leader and it is a right of U.S. citizens to elect even idiots(not implying anthing). So unless you want a revolution or some equivilent lets stick with Democracy. shall we.

The US isn’t a democracy. If it was, we’d have people voting directly on whether to go to war in Iraq...in fact, there probably wouldn’t be a Prez. So we’re not "sticking with Democracy". The US is currently at something between Democracy and a Republic.
"ok, change of plans. the Cobracards christmas party is coming to my house, and we’re gunna teach FM how to hunt." (mm)
physcosick
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:05 pm
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 229 Location:
The general public shouldnt be allowed to vote for the president. The general flaw of the majority states that they will vote for someone who is just like them. So the ignorant will vote for the ignorant (some mid-west texan cowboy who had a C average all through HS, used drugs, and can’t even pronounce some of the words that come out of his mouth<== that is what you get in a democracy).

So unless you are ignorant yourself, you have to see the flaw in this: we go to war, are social security is gone, inflation, poor economy, etc, etc. Democracy is just a way to make the rich richer and the poor poorer... unlike Communism.

Bring on the Totalitarian Dictatorship!

PS: In Soviet Russia, forum posts you!
bobtheorc
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:20 pm
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 1218 Location: Wow, its hot in Iowa
menace64 wrote:


I would *like* to see the electoral college removed, so that the people would actually get to vote on who entered office.

I personally think the the electoral college was a good idea. You weren’t orignally allowed to vote for the prez, your elected representives voted for you. This worked well but then became a hybrid between a democracy and a Republic. So yes techically you wouldn’t get to vote for the prez.
Also I personally don’t believe that the bill of rights is neccessary. After are the constitution has a specific list of things the Federal government can do.
Therefore the feds should only do those thinds and not need a list of things not to do. Also FDR may have been the worst prez when it comes to breaking the bill of rights , and his constitutional powers.
As in the Japanese internment and even engaging america in WW II.
Please post your thoughts on this.
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physcosick
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:52 pm
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 229 Location:
FDR was a brilliant man that everyone loved. At a time of war and depression he cared about the civilians and had regular radio speeches to keep everyone informed and comfortable. He got us out of the Great Depression. He created social security,he taxed the wealthy heavier than the poor, he had plans for banks, and had a work relief program for the unemployed. The man did more than most presidents can say for themselves.

It was a severely desperate time and there needed to be desperate measures. Exactly how many constitutional obligations he bended, it was perfectl justified. When you are faced to either the destruction and death of America or bending a couple rules for the benefit of everyone in the new future, it’s perfectly fun. FDR was brilliant and my favorite president. Without him I prolly wouldn’t be here in my dorm typing on a laptop.

FDR didn’t walk us into WW2. He tried to keep us out of it but other nations threatened us so we had to act. Are you forgetting Pearl Harbor? Fraknlin did the best he could to keep us out of WW2, but we were attacked and Europe was slowly loosing to the power that was the Axis. So Nazism would have practicaly have ruled Europe. With that kind of strength, the rest of the world is practically doomed. He had to act or we all would be dead... or Nazis...

It’s a shame most of what he worked for and everything good he did can be totally screwed over by one president. If your a republican... well your wrong... but if your a republican and you like Bush you have no right to talk about FDR doing anything without regards to the Bill of Rights. Bush is day in and day out doing anything he wants without any regualtions because the republicans in the congress let him practically get away with any thing just to stick it to the Democrats and the SUpreme Court isn’t much to talk about either.

I’d rather have the corpse of FDR than a Bush any day.

In Soveit Russia, us destroys Bush.
CarpeGuitarrem
Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:26 am
Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Posts: 3361 Location: Franciscan University of Steubenville
Let’s keep in mind the original topic: Democracy. Not Bush-bashing/worshipping or FDR.
"ok, change of plans. the Cobracards christmas party is coming to my house, and we’re gunna teach FM how to hunt." (mm)
Anonymous Prodigy
Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:18 pm
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 4197 Location: United States
physcosick wrote:
FDR was a brilliant man that everyone loved. At a time of war and depression he cared about the civilians and had regular radio speeches to keep everyone informed and comfortable. He got us out of the Great Depression. He created social security,he taxed the wealthy heavier than the poor, he had plans for banks, and had a work relief program for the unemployed. The man did more than most presidents can say for themselves.

It was a severely desperate time and there needed to be desperate measures. Exactly how many constitutional obligations he bended, it was perfectl justified. When you are faced to either the destruction and death of America or bending a couple rules for the benefit of everyone in the new future, it’s perfectly fun. FDR was brilliant and my favorite president. Without him I prolly wouldn’t be here in my dorm typing on a laptop.

FDR didn’t walk us into WW2. He tried to keep us out of it but other nations threatened us so we had to act. Are you forgetting Pearl Harbor? Fraknlin did the best he could to keep us out of WW2, but we were attacked and Europe was slowly loosing to the power that was the Axis. So Nazism would have practicaly have ruled Europe. With that kind of strength, the rest of the world is practically doomed. He had to act or we all would be dead... or Nazis...

It’s a shame most of what he worked for and everything good he did can be totally screwed over by one president. If your a republican... well your wrong... but if your a republican and you like Bush you have no right to talk about FDR doing anything without regards to the Bill of Rights. Bush is day in and day out doing anything he wants without any regualtions because the republicans in the congress let him practically get away with any thing just to stick it to the Democrats and the SUpreme Court isn’t much to talk about either.

I’d rather have the corpse of FDR than a Bush any day.

In Soveit Russia, us destroys Bush.


Rolling Eyes
I had to put something here.
bobtheorc
Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:21 pm
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 1218 Location: Wow, its hot in Iowa
physcosick wrote:
FDR was a brilliant man that everyone loved. At a time of war and depression he cared about the civilians and had regular radio speeches to keep everyone informed and comfortable. He got us out of the Great Depression. He created social security,he taxed the wealthy heavier than the poor, he had plans for banks, and had a work relief program for the unemployed. The man did more than most presidents can say for themselves.

But where in the constitution is the president or congress given the right to distribute wealth? The federal government isn’t supposed to do welfare, that is the rights of the states and individuals NOT the feds. Look at FEMA. That is what happens when the federal government tries to do stuff it isn’t supposed to do. Also does it matter if the prez is popular? And how much did FDR really do to get us out of a depression?
Way to much blame or credit is given to the president when it comes to economic issues.


It was a severely desperate time and there needed to be desperate measures. Exactly how many constitutional obligations he bended, it was perfectl justified. When you are faced to either the destruction and death of America or bending a couple rules for the benefit of everyone in the new future, it’s perfectly fun???. FDR was brilliant and my favorite president. Without him I prolly wouldn’t be here in my dorm typing on a laptop.

So it is all right to break the law if it all works out in the end?
How about internment of the Japanese? Was that right? after all why didn’t we intern the Germans and Italiens too? I think that it was somewhat Paranoia and also simply racist


FDR didn’t walk us into WW2. He tried to keep us out of it but other nations threatened us so we had to act. Are you forgetting Pearl Harbor? Fraknlin did the best he could to keep us out of WW2, but we were attacked and Europe was slowly loosing to the power that was the Axis. So Nazism would have practicaly have ruled Europe. With that kind of strength, the rest of the world is practically doomed. He had to act or we all would be dead... or Nazis...

First off why did Japan attack us? After all FDR froze their assets and did other things that were provactive. So what is europe was losing to nazism? When is it the USA Business to intervene in foriegn politics?
We didn’t do it during the French revolution, the Crimean War, or the Franco Prussian war. The founding fathers didn’t want the United States screwing around in foriegn wars. You may say "but Hitler was evil and wanted to rule the world" well guess what the British kindom at the time was over the entire world, and had been that way for a long time. Also don’t tell me Hitler was more evil then our "Ally" Stalin who killed over 40 million of his OWN people.
That seems more evil to me than 10 million. What made Hitler worse than Stalin or even teh British Empire?




It’s a shame most of what he worked for and everything good he did can be totally screwed over by one president. If your a republican... well your wrong... but if your a republican and you like Bush you have no right to talk about FDR doing anything without regards to the Bill of Rights. Bush is day in and day out doing anything he wants without any regualtions because the republicans in the congress let him practically get away with any thing just to stick it to the Democrats and the SUpreme Court isn’t much to talk about either.

I’d rather have the corpse of FDR than a Bush any day.

In Soveit Russia, us destroys Bush.


I agree that Bush is acting outside his power. In some ways he is repeating the mistakes of FDR. Messing around in other countries which we label and "Axis of Evil" If we attack everyone who is a "threat" to us then we should be in Iran, Syria, and North Korea. Also he may be violating our rights through wiretapping. Also Bush’s spending is also very extravagant and excesive. I personally don’t like Bush at all, for many of the same reason as FDR.


Finall as to CG post: Yes the orignal topic is democracy but since I did start the thread I kinda wanted to change the subject.

Btw thanks physcosick for responding, it keeps thing interesting. Razz
I eagery await you response.
Exclamation Ban the Overpowered OrcsExclamation
"Don't panic, I have paper!" - Taipan Popcorn
Is that Grima, Grief Counselor? - legolamb
Bobtheorcs Uruk-Hai Dcs
Bob’s wonderful !! updated !! Trade list
physcosick
Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:11 pm
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 229 Location:
bobtheorc wrote:

But where in the constitution is the president or congress given the right to distribute wealth? The federal government isn’t supposed to do welfare, that is the rights of the states and individuals NOT the feds. Look at FEMA. That is what happens when the federal government tries to do stuff it isn’t supposed to do. Also does it matter if the prez is popular? And how much did FDR really do to get us out of a depression?
Way to much blame or credit is given to the president when it comes to economic issues.
I’m not sure about where in the constituion it says a government can’t distribute wealth. For that matter, I doubt it even exists to say they can’t. I don’t give a - who takes care of Welfare, it’s there and thats all that matters. I know FEMA... are you saying it’s a bad thing. It’s a good program with a worthy cause. You need to be less concerned about "the government shouldnt be allowed to do that" and more concerned with "that program is very beneficial". I understand FDR wasn’t the only man behind the scenes. But we couldn’t have gotten out of it on our own and I defy you to name many presidents who could have done that (certainly not Bush... if there was an anti-Bush than he would be able to do it).

So it is all right to break the law if it all works out in the end?
How about internment of the Japanese? Was that right? after all why didn’t we intern the Germans and Italiens too? I think that it was somewhat Paranoia and also simply racist
No, the government is set up to protect the citizens, thats what it is there for. Any programs or actions set up for the benefits of the civilians is justified. The japanese were interned in communities, yes, but it wasn’t necassrily evil. It’s not like they were death camps, they were houses where they lived in communities. It’s no different than the racial profiling that goes on now. Except the government took care of that by just sticking them all together. As far as the italians and germans go, we only took those who were deemed to be a threat because of what ever reasons. They paid them reparations and ROnald Reagon apologized for them... isn’t that enough? Rolling Eyes I’m not trying to justify it, but it was a scary time and Japs were already hated on by the general public. It wasn’t safe for them anywhere. The whites were racist against them and many could have been seriously injured or killed or even severe property damage.


First off why did Japan attack us? After all FDR froze their assets and did other things that were provactive. So what is europe was losing to nazism? When is it the USA Business to intervene in foriegn politics?
We didn’t do it during the French revolution, the Crimean War, or the Franco Prussian war. The founding fathers didn’t want the United States screwing around in foriegn wars. You may say "but Hitler was evil and wanted to rule the world" well guess what the British kindom at the time was over the entire world, and had been that way for a long time. Also don’t tell me Hitler was more evil then our "Ally" Stalin who killed over 40 million of his OWN people.
That seems more evil to me than 10 million. What made Hitler worse than Stalin or even teh British Empire?

Why wouldn’t we freeze assets to a country who is siding with Nazis and facists? To aid that kind of thing would be irresponsible. We, the United States, are a Global superpower (not being egotistical... its a fact) and as such, we have to be involved in foreign affairs. We have are allies and we have are enemies. For our best interest, it is the best thing to do to help our allies and fight for the right cause. The British Empire had been going to un-settled land and colonizing it, much different. Stalin was a facist italian and part of the axis... he wasn’t our "ally"

I agree that Bush is acting outside his power. In some ways he is repeating the mistakes of FDR. Messing around in other countries which we label and "Axis of Evil" If we attack everyone who is a "threat" to us then we should be in Iran, Syria, and North Korea. Also he may be violating our rights through wiretapping. Also Bush’s spending is also very extravagant and excesive. I personally don’t like Bush at all, for many of the same reason as FDR.and thats your opinion... I’m sorry it’s wrong.


Finall as to CG post: Yes the orignal topic is democracy but since I did start the thread I kinda wanted to change the subject.

Btw thanks physcosick for responding, it keeps thing interesting. Razz
I eagery await you response.[/quote]


well I told 2 of my friends last night i was debating with someone (at that point it was tOO) who thinks FDR was a bad president (and tOO liked Bush... i guess) and one of them laughed and the other laughed and than said "just tell them to shut the____". SO.... I’m done.
Anonymous Prodigy
Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:30 pm
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 4197 Location: United States
physcosick wrote:
I agree that Bush is acting outside his power. In some ways he is repeating the mistakes of FDR. Messing around in other countries which we label and "Axis of Evil" If we attack everyone who is a "threat" to us then we should be in Iran, Syria, and North Korea. Also he may be violating our rights through wiretapping. Also Bush’s spending is also very extravagant and excesive. I personally don’t like Bush at all, for many of the same reason as FDR.and thats your opinion... I’m sorry it’s wrong.


How fascinating. Actually, psychosick, your statement is a contradiction. Because bobtheorc has his personal opinion, that means that he is neither right nor wrong. In your eyes, he is wrong. But in his eyes, he is right. Therefore, since no actual foundation of ultimate truth is justified in the opinions, neither of you is right. Unless you can give proof that your opinion is actual truth, bobtheorc’s opinion has just as much reason to be right as yours.
I had to put something here.
physcosick
Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:21 pm
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 229 Location:
that was my point Rolling Eyes

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