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Do you think space aliens really exist?
| Definitely. Every ten years I have those strange circle marks in my corn field. |
| [ 1 ] 5% |
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| Halo has convinced me they exist |
| [ 0 ] 0% |
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| Maybe |
| [ 9 ] 50% |
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| You'd really have to be really stupid to believe they do |
| [ 8 ] 44% |
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Total Votes : 18 |
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| La_Sin_Grail |
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:12 pm |
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Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 806
Location: Maryland
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sickofpalantirs wrote: Pipeweed wrote: Under Australian lab conditions is not natural, if I may point out.
point but still it shows that you can get oil pretty quickly.
So if I gave you a gift and said "Ok here’s a gift. But if you use it, it will be ruined forever." You would look at me like I’m crazy. Why would God a) be an australian lab scientist or b) use allmighty-ness to put something with only harmful effects into a gift. Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. |
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| sickofpalantirs |
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:52 pm |
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 7750
Location: somwhere, over the rainbow way up high. There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby.
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what?
that didn’t make any sense kindly rephrase it. Oh and I answered your question about the core and electricity last night.
to recap it
Yes we are theorizing. but almost all scientists agree there is electro magnetism going on.
anyway One of the theories (called the rapid decay theory) used to explain it is that the electrical current of the earth is a consequence of how the earth was created.
The other theory (the dynamo theory) states that the rotation of the earth and other random currents cause the liquids in the core to move in one general direction causing motion of electrical charges and thus causing an electrical current.
While the theories both explained things on earth so they were tested on other planets. The Dynamo theory said that mars had a magnetic field while the RD(rapid decay) theory said it didn’t testing indicates that mars has no Magnetic field. The dynamo theory predicted to magnetic field on mercury while the RD theory predicted one. Mercury has a magnetic field. The RD theory was correct on Uranus and Neptune while the dynamo theory was off by a factor of 100.
Anyway the RD theory says that unless the earth was less then 10,000 yrs. old the current needed to maintain the field would have exploded the earth!
help any? |
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| physcosick |
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:02 pm |
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Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 229
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Merrick_Hale wrote: According to the Strong’s Concordance, the Hebrew word for day used in the creation story found in Genesis can be translated both literally (as in from Sunrise to Sunset or Sunrise to Sunrise) or figuratively as in an age. Generally, these words are use literally more often than not, so I am inclined to believe in a literal 7-day creation.
In the current world all light needs a source. The source for that light would have been God since John 1:1-5 says: "1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it." I understand the poetic use of the idea of light, thats the whole basis for Christmas. No one knows the exact day Jesus was born but they put his birthday in december because it’s a very dark and cold time and Jesus is supposed to be the light of the world. However, it’s simply flawed. I don’t understand this: if there was a God why did he screw up the order? He made light, 2 days later made a source of light, on the 2nd day he made vegetation and life but without the sun (even for one day) it would have been too cold for those things to survive. The reason why I say it is flawed is because if God is almighty and intelligent and all knowing, etc, etc why would he create a light source then disregard it at a later date only to be replaced by another light source. Instead, he could have created the planets on the first day, then waited for the speed of heat to get into the Earth’s atmosphere, then create life and vegetation so that those things can actually survive without special restrictions. To say that God made exemptions for their survival just screams stupid to me as far as an unintelligent rebuttal and a dumb God. Why would God defy his own laws in the beginning when he could have simply made the earth the way he wanted it to be so life could start off in the environment needed to survive and contain the conditions needed for said life? It doesn’t make sense. If I was creating a universe, I’d start with the essentials. Like if your making corn bread. You have to start with all of the ingredients. But if you don’t have eggs and milk, it will be rather hard to mix everything else together and put it in the oven only to, in 10 minutes, go back in and mix in the eggs and milk. That would be terrible cornbread and it doesn’t say much for my ability to create something that is simply amazing but it surely doesn’t say much for my culinary skills.
Oh and you can’t use the literal term for day as "sunrise sunset" unless there was a sun, so the first 2 days are undefinable. And even opn the third day when the sun was created, it would take a rather significant time for the heat to reach the moon and the earth.
CarpeGuitarrem wrote: This really belongs in a thread other than "Do Aliens Exist?", since it really doesn’t have a bearing on the thread’s real topic. To first understand life on other planets, you must first understand our own origins. |
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| La_Sin_Grail |
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:57 pm |
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Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 806
Location: Maryland
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sickofpalantirs wrote: what?
that didn’t make any sense kindly rephrase it. Oh and I answered your question about the core and electricity last night.
to recap it
Yes we are theorizing. but almost all scientists agree there is electro magnetism going on.
anyway One of the theories (called the rapid decay theory) used to explain it is that the electrical current of the earth is a consequence of how the earth was created.
The other theory (the dynamo theory) states that the rotation of the earth and other random currents cause the liquids in the core to move in one general direction causing motion of electrical charges and thus causing an electrical current.
While the theories both explained things on earth so they were tested on other planets. The Dynamo theory said that mars had a magnetic field while the RD(rapid decay) theory said it didn’t testing indicates that mars has no Magnetic field. The dynamo theory predicted to magnetic field on mercury while the RD theory predicted one. Mercury has a magnetic field. The RD theory was correct on Uranus and Neptune while the dynamo theory was off by a factor of 100.
Anyway the RD theory says that unless the earth was less then 10,000 yrs. old the current needed to maintain the field would have exploded the earth!
help any?
I don’t understand why the magnetic field woul dhave blown the earth before but does not now. I know there is one now, what I’m wondering is why you think it would have blown up the earth however many years ago.
EDIT: Oh right, what I was saying before... why would god have put fossil fuels on the planet? The obvious explanation is he didn’t lending itself to dinosaurs, lending itself to the earth being over 10,00 yrs old.
Out of curiousity, how do you justify dinosaur bones in the 10k theory? |
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| bobtheorc |
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:32 pm |
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Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 1218
Location: Wow, its hot in Iowa
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First off I think that although the literal six days/young earth creationism is Biblically accurate, I do think that the old earth creationists may have some good ideas.
First off physcosick wrote: I understand the poetic use of the idea of light, thats the whole basis for Christmas. No one knows the exact day Jesus was born but they put his birthday in december because it’s a very dark and cold time and Jesus is supposed to be the light of the world.
Where did you get this stuff about the reason for Christmas being in December? The early Christian in about 100-200 A.D. decided to replace the normal Mid-Winter Pagan festivities with a celebration of the birth of Christ.
The Christians also did this for Halloween (which isn’t really Christian anymore),
and they combined some pagan holidays for Easter also.
Also it is important when you are trying to understand the Young earth angle, that the pre-flood world was quite a bit different then the world is now.
It was quite a bit warmer, and humid. There are passages in genesis that indicate that there was a great canopy of water vapor which created greenhouse effect over the entire planet, causing jungles to flourish.
There has been evidence for this in the fact that fossils of Jungle plants and animals have been found at both the North and South poles which are now the coldest places on earth. However when the flood happened the water canopy became rain that flooded the earth, and it no longer existed.
So without that canopy causing planet wide warming, the Ice Age(or ages) occurred, and these drastically changed the wildlife on this planet.
La_Sin_Grail wrote: Out of curiousity, how do you justify dinosaur bones in the 10k theory? If I understand this correctly you are asking how dinosaur bones can be around if the earth is 10K old? Well if you believe that a massive global wide flood happened which would have wiped out any land life and then buried them in mud stirred up by flood waters, that would account for fossils being formed in the "short" time period of 10K.
IMHO this whole topic comes down to Is there a God (not some impersonal force but a being) , or not?
After all if God doesn’t exist then atheistic evolution is true . |
Ban the Overpowered Orcs
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| physcosick |
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:24 pm |
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Joined: 18 Oct 2005
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bobtheorc wrote: Where did you get this stuff about the reason for Christmas being in December? High School Religion classes.
bobtheorc wrote: The early Christian in about 100-200 A.D. decided to replace the normal Mid-Winter Pagan festivities with a celebration of the birth of Christ. Exactly my point... why else would they have decided to replace that particular celebration with celbrating the birth of christ? |
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| bobtheorc |
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:11 pm |
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Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 1218
Location: Wow, its hot in Iowa
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If memory serves me right, they wanted to replace the pagan festivities for no other reason then that it would be a better way to get other people involved with the church and to get people to break away from Pagan holiday and embrace Christians holidays.
Although Christmas is pretty commercial nowadays....so it is basically an American holiday..yay for consumers!  |
Ban the Overpowered Orcs
"Don't panic, I have paper!" - Taipan
Is that Grima, Grief Counselor? - legolamb
Bobtheorcs Uruk-Hai Dcs
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| La_Sin_Grail |
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:33 pm |
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Location: Maryland
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I don’t think so. I go back and forth between thinking there is a god and thinking there isn’t, but I think if there is one, he doesn’t really give a #$%^ about what we do in everyday lives. I don’t believe in Christianity, that’s true, but that’s not the only method of worship. After all, when you get down to it, it’s a sect of Judaism anyway. In any case, perhaps God made the earth 4 billion years ago. What’s wrong with that? Maybe he got bored, so he made apes start turning into people, to give him something more interesting to watch. It’s gotta get boring for him. I mean seriously, seriously boring being all powerful. If you never lose, how is the game any fun? If I were all-powerful, I would get bored and start tinkering with stuff, and if you’re all-knowing, you’d get bored even faster
"I’m bored of people. I’ll make Grunkins on planet Zeeblesnout for my new fun. And yeah, I did used to have a son, but hey, I’ll have another one now, to go with my newfound entertainment, the Grunkins!"
See? ^-^ there could be other life and still be a god. Not that I know for sure on either.... the only thing I do know is that if you say there definately isn’t or is, I can prove you wrong. If you say "this is my guess, but I don’t know", then we can have fun philosophical conversations  |
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| sickofpalantirs |
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:43 am |
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 7750
Location: somwhere, over the rainbow way up high. There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby.
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that is the biggest bunch of male cow feces I have ever seen(to quote AP)
OK i will explain the magnetic theory again.
the core is constantly losing electricity. The energy needed to maintain it from creation till now would have exploded the earth unless the earth is less then 10,000 years old and thus hasn’t lost as much electricity as if it were 100,000,000 years old |
Sop's haves/ top wants
(mm)"SoP: you will always be the Official CC Spammer in my heart"
"DáinIronfoot"
Spammers really are amazing creatures. You can learn all there is to know about their ways in a month. And yet, after a hundred years, they can still surprise you.  |
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| Merrick_Hale |
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:56 am |
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Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 445
Location: Austin, Texas
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physcosick wrote: I don’t understand this: if there was a God why did he screw up the order? He made light, 2 days later made a source of light, on the 2nd day he made vegetation and life but without the sun (even for one day) it would have been too cold for those things to survive. The reason why I say it is flawed is because if God is almighty and intelligent and all knowing, etc, etc why would he create a light source then disregard it at a later date only to be replaced by another light source. Instead, he could have created the planets on the first day, then waited for the speed of heat to get into the Earth’s atmosphere, then create life and vegetation so that those things can actually survive without special restrictions. To say that God made exemptions for their survival just screams stupid to me as far as an unintelligent rebuttal and a dumb God. Why would God defy his own laws in the beginning when he could have simply made the earth the way he wanted it to be so life could start off in the environment needed to survive and contain the conditions needed for said life? It doesn’t make sense. If I was creating a universe, I’d start with the essentials. Like if your making corn bread. You have to start with all of the ingredients. But if you don’t have eggs and milk, it will be rather hard to mix everything else together and put it in the oven only to, in 10 minutes, go back in and mix in the eggs and milk. That would be terrible cornbread and it doesn’t say much for my ability to create something that is simply amazing but it surely doesn’t say much for my culinary skills. I don’t claim to understand it all either, but I think that you are trying to apply human logic to God and that just doesn’t work. Isaiah 55:8 says "’For my thoughts are not your thoughts, Neither are your ways my ways,’ declares the Lord". God’s logic and power are much different from ours so complete comprehension of how and the way God works is impossible.
Going back to the poetic aspect of the creation account, look at Genesis 1 from this perspective: Days 1-3 are creation, days 4-6 are population with repeated patterns. It makes more sense when you look at it from this perspective. First, God creates the environment and then he populates it:
Creation time Period 1
Day 1: God creates light and dark
Day 2: God creates Water and Sky
Day 3: God creates Dry Land and vegetation
Creation Time Period 2
Day 4: God creates the sun moon and stars (Inhabitants of the light and dark)
Day 5: God creates Birds and Fish (Inhabitants for the water and the sky)
Day 6: God creates animals and man (Inhabitants for the land)
I think that you are looking at it from the wrong angle when you approach it from the perspective of baking cornbread. All the materials were there to begin with, they were just ordered and turned into a masterpiece. Think of it not as baking, but more as either a lump of clay waiting a potter’s hand, or a canvas, paints, water, brush cloth and smock awaiting the artist’s intervention to create a masterpiece.
What is there in the text that says that there wasn’t warmth and cold, Ultraviolet and infra-red radiation initially when the light was created? Could they have existed and thus from a logical perspective sustained plant life?
physcosick wrote: Oh and you can’t use the literal term for day as "sunrise sunset" unless there was a sun, so the first 2 days are undefinable. Yes a literal term for day doesn’t directly apply, but since it is the same word that is used from day 4 on as well after the sun is created, I don’t think that it is an unwarranted interpretation. Shifting usage like that would be like me going on and on and on about how killing someone is bad, robbing a store is bad, lying to an employer is bad, and making that sweet jump with your bike is bad. Shifting the meaning of the same word within a short passage doesn’t happen often in scripture if it happens at all (I don’t know 100% since I don’t know the whole Bible in the original Hebrew and Greek).
physcosick wrote: And even opn the third day when the sun was created, it would take a rather significant time for the heat to reach the moon and the earth. What does this have to do with the current argument? Are you going back to your initial premise of light not having heat or UV radiation to sustain plant life? Again, if visible light was co-existent with other forms of radiation why would it take time once light was "gathered" to form the Sun, Moon and Stars?
physcosick wrote: bobtheorc wrote: Where did you get this stuff about the reason for Christmas being in December? High School Religion classes. What type of high school religion classes? From my fiancee’s experiences in college, unless it is taught by someone who has a strong Christian faith, they get much of it wrong as academia is filled with "liberal" scholars who deny the truth of Scripture or think that its veracity is up for debate.
La_Sin_Grail wrote: After all, when you get down to it, it’s (Christianity) a sect of Judaism anyway. Not really. Christianity identifies recognizes that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, the Messiah who will deliver His people, the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy. Judaism does not recognize Christ as the messiah and is still awaiting their savior from elsewhere. Just because they have a similar belief structure and use much of the same literature not all religions are the same. Islam has very little to do with either Christianity or Judaism other than that they all recognize the Torah and lineage from Abraham.
Christianity’s faith is that Jesus Christ was the perfect Son of God, who was born of a Virgin, lived a perfect life and died on a cross and rose again to take the punishment for our sins (things we do that go against God’s character) and that his death on our behalf is the only way we can have a right relationship with God. The simplest form is found in 1Corinthians 15:3-4.
Ok, enough from me. If people have more objections to or questions about what I have written, PM me and I’ll be glad to take this off the forums. |
Aaron Rhinehart
Rider of Rohan (retired)
DAgent #417 (retired)
This Incognito is a smooth operator - Lem0nhead |
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