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Do you think space aliens really exist?
| Definitely. Every ten years I have those strange circle marks in my corn field. |
| [ 1 ] 5% |
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| Halo has convinced me they exist |
| [ 0 ] 0% |
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| Maybe |
| [ 9 ] 50% |
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| You'd really have to be really stupid to believe they do |
| [ 8 ] 44% |
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Total Votes : 18 |
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| ingold55 |
 Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:26 pm |
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Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 1199
Location: Out on the front line
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wow! my post didn’t go through!
ok let me try this agian.
You still come up with problem of doing bad in your life, and God demands ultimate perfection. even if you only sinned once, you would not achieve heaven because you weren’t perfect all you life. The only way to achieve perfection is to accept Jesus Chirst’s gift of forgiveness. then you are cleansed and forgiven of all past, present, and future sins.
once you become a Christian, you should try and follow Chirst as much as possible. true it won’t be true perfection, but you have been forgiven of sins.
do you understand? this applies for "if a person did good as much as he sinned?" question.
"I suppose you were kind of trying to set off a spark-bomb with me about abortion, but I’ve long since known that this is the single least worth discussing topic known to man. There is no proof, no evidence, no nothing that can even make a person budge either way. At least with the topic of heaven, we can have some though provoking discussions about the grey area, but there’s no grey to explore with abortion. "
as far as the abortion topic goes, i stand where the Bible says "Don’t Murder" so if you take the life of a living baby, without that baby having a say in his wish to live or die. i call that murder, and i believe murder is wrong. (even though in mom’s stomach he is living, he has a heart brain, lungs...) that is what i believe based on the Bible.   ’
sorry about earlier, the post not going through. |
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| sickofpalantirs |
| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:25 am |
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 7750
Location: somwhere, over the rainbow way up high. There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby.
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| point about African kids and such. And yeah abortion is probably like evolution Vs. creation no one is going to budge and inch. I55 is right since heaven si a perfect place, if you let someone imperfect in, it wouldn’t be perfect anymore but through believing Jesus died for our sins and asking for forgivness when we sin, God "wipes our slate clean" proverbially. |
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| La_Sin_Grail |
| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:19 pm |
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Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 806
Location: Maryland
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Abortion is even harder than evolution vs. creation. At least we have sutff like magnetic fields and fossils to dicuss instead of.... nothing
Just to clarify, if a baby does have a brain developing, it IS defined as murder in this country. That’s no question among anybody. The bigger deal is when none of the "heart, brain, lungs" hve developed yet.
So now here’s another way of looking at the same question. Does this mean that God can rutinely send good people to hell? I would think God should be able to transcend human labelings and realize that good people shouldn’t be put there. Has anybody considered that God never expected people to be perfect? It sounds to me like Jesus helps Christians pull one over on god. I mean, if God knows everything, he knows you weren’t perfect, so why should he listen to Jesus changing things about people? God still knows you weren’t perfect and lets you in because you are now, is I think what you are saying, but my question is if you’re good why doesn’t God purify you himself? |
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| AdultLink |
| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:37 pm |
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Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 253
Location: Hyrule
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| This topic is an insane eyesore and doesn’t even have to do with it’s topic name anymore. Can this be moved or locked or something? Or at least renamed? Moderators? |
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| La_Sin_Grail |
| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:16 pm |
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Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 806
Location: Maryland
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Well I don’t know how to rename things, personally, though I would if I could. There’s too much stuff to referance to delete all these things.
How it’s an insane eyesore or how an eyesore can even be insane is a mystery to me, though. The only thing I basically know how to do as a mod is to edit people’s posts. Maybe we have more powers and I don’t know it.... but I don’t know it |
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| AnxiousChieftain |
| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:29 am |
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Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Posts: 3947
Location: Maryland
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| There, changed the title. Is that better? I didn’t look through all 14 pages of this, so if there’s something else that should be included in the title then let me know. |
| MODS RULE. - lem0nhead |
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| sickofpalantirs |
| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:39 am |
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 7750
Location: somwhere, over the rainbow way up high. There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby.
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La_Sin_Grail wrote:
So now here’s another way of looking at the same question. Does this mean that God can rutinely send good people to hell? I would think God should be able to transcend human labelings and realize that good people shouldn’t be put there. Has anybody considered that God never expected people to be perfect? It sounds to me like Jesus helps Christians pull one over on god. I mean, if God knows everything, he knows you weren’t perfect, so why should he listen to Jesus changing things about people? God still knows you weren’t perfect and lets you in because you are now, is I think what you are saying, but my question is if you’re good why doesn’t God purify you himself?
humans began as perfect but chose to sin Gen 3. The human race had a chance, but we blew it. God doesn’t purify us himself because he wants us to choose him not be forced into him. If you forced someone to love you or they would die would it really be love? God wants us to choose him. |
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| macheteman |
| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:08 pm |
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Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 1200
Location: The Jungle
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the thing is, we are "born in sin". because of the fall.
any good thing we do is "as fithy rags" because we do it in our own strength.
the penalty for our sin must be paid. there is no way around it. and we can’t pay it. and so God was pleased to crush his son instead of me. THAT is God working on a personal basis.
how many times in history, has a person who is the most terrible and most wicked been given the death sentance, and annother person, who was ABSOLUTLY PERFECT, never done anything wrong (something which my mind cannot grasp), said, "no, kill me instead."
the answer is once, jesus did it, and it was worse than just dying, he was separated from God the Father.
there really isn’t such a thing as a "good person". we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. it has been said "God didn’t die for the frogs." saying that God has a perfect love for us that he would die for wicked people. and i agree with what it is trying to say, but on the other hand, God didn’t HAVE to die for the frogs. they didn’t reject him and serve themselves and their own diverse lusts and diverse pleasures, like mankind has.
and it is only God that saves people from their sins, and there is no gray area. God is not letting people into heaven who haven’t completely surrendered their hearts minds and bodies to Him. no man can save someone, it is only by God’s grace.
the sad thing is that a great many Christians do not love other people like they should. but worse than that, we don’t love God as we should.
we’re all sinners, and God saves! |
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| La_Sin_Grail |
| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:23 pm |
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Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 806
Location: Maryland
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macheteman wrote:
how many times in history, has a person who is the most terrible and most wicked been given the death sentance, and annother person, who was ABSOLUTLY PERFECT, never done anything wrong (something which my mind cannot grasp), said, "no, kill me instead."
the answer is once, jesus did it, and it was worse than just dying, he was separated from God the Father.
The answer, my friend, is more than once. In the story of Pocohantas (not the Disney crap, the historical version), Jon Smith was to be killed and Pocohantas said let her die instead. When they said no, she said then let me die as well and then they spared him. Know your history before you quote it. I would wager this has happened other times, and I don’t know any more because I don’t pay much attention in school and stuff
As for being a good person, you’re saying nobody can be a good person? I think if somebody like whoever started Red Cross (Clara Barton perhaps I can’t remember) is a good person no matter what sin they are born with.
What if somebody (and I’m not saying by any means I could) could live completely and utterly sin-free?
Would they be let in? The concept of original sin is very Puritan... it’s interesting to see what sort of religions affect each other.
Now here’s another question. If your father dies with $100,000 of debt, should you be held accountable for it? By the same principle, I cannot seem to accept the concept of original sin- I guess I’m down with people saying you need to cleanse yourself of things you’ve done, but things you haven’t done? Comon, there, it’s free will. You’re held accountable for what you can control an nothing more.
EDIT: and thanks for changing the title I should really figure out how to do that sometime. |
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| macheteman |
| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:53 pm |
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Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 1200
Location: The Jungle
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pocohantas wasn’t perfect. thats why i phrased it that way. i’m sure there have been many times people have died for others (like the GI that takes the bullet for his friend). but no one is perfect. humans cannot comprehend the agoney of Jesus Christ when he died, because there was so much more going on than just: one person dying for another. he bore the sins of the whole world.
in human eyes, yes, there are good people. but being a "good person" dosn’t get you anywhere with God if you havn’t surrendered to Him.
if it was possible to live sin free, yes we would go to heaven. the thing is, we are born in sin, therefore we cannot live perfectly.
if my father dies with $100,000 of debt, should i be held accountable to pay it. well first i think debt is usually (though not always) wrong. because, for me as a Christian, to not trust God to provide is a lake of faith. but to answer your question, yes. the person is owed money, and restitution needs to be made.
the first man was made perfect. he represented mankind. he sinned and the earth was cursed because of it. and now since man fell, we are born in sin because of that fallen nature. |
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