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Do you think space aliens really exist?
| Definitely. Every ten years I have those strange circle marks in my corn field. |
| [ 1 ] 5% |
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| Halo has convinced me they exist |
| [ 0 ] 0% |
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| Maybe |
| [ 9 ] 50% |
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| You'd really have to be really stupid to believe they do |
| [ 8 ] 44% |
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Total Votes : 18 |
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| sickofpalantirs |
 Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:59 pm |
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 7750
Location: somwhere, over the rainbow way up high. There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby.
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| OK I misread your statement, I am saying that evolution has been shown improbable and intelligent design probable. Though if you read the case for Christ and the case for faith, you might find evidence for God. |
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| Loosechange911 |
| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:28 pm |
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Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 29
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Ah, improbability, the creationist’s favorite argument. But as you will hopefully see, probability comes close to disproving god. It doesn’t completely disprove god, but shows that god is indeed quite improbable.
Fred Hoyle once stated that for life to originate on earth, the same luck would be needed on the magnitude of a tornado entering a junkyard and assembling a Boeing 747. Indeed, the odds of assembling a fully functioning human being with randomness of molecules is getting close to 747 territory.
But here’s something the creationist often overlooks. "However statistically improbable the entity you seek to explain by invoking a designer, the designer itself has got to be at least as improbable." As Richard Dawkins stated, "God is the Ultimate Boeing 747."
Natural Selection does not ask for a one time random chance event. But instead involves the accumalation of millions of occurences. While the end result is indeed impossibly improbable if taken with a one shot attempt, the gradual increments provide a possible explanation for life’s origin. Especially considering there are, as astronomers have educatedly guessed, around a billion billion possible planets on which life could survive. |
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| sickofpalantirs |
| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:31 pm |
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 7750
Location: somwhere, over the rainbow way up high. There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby.
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| I’ll let you read the book before posting again. |
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| ingold55 |
| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:19 pm |
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Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 1199
Location: Out on the front line
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you forgot number 4 LC911
4) they believe, because they see it is true, and fulfilling. and they are willing to give their life to God.
um, no it isn’t a bad arguement. have you felt God? Matchetman, and I myself has...are you telling us other wise? have you felt Him, thus, you can tell us we haven’t felt Him, or can you tell us you haven’t felt Him, but then you wouldn’t know if we have or haven’t.
wow i don’t get it. people are given a way to ultimate life, but don’t want it.  i don’t get it.
as for faith,
both Christianity and evolution, have both been proven, and still have faith in it... |
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| La_Sin_Grail |
| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:06 pm |
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Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 806
Location: Maryland
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[quote="ingold55"]you forgot number 4 LC911
4) they believe, because they see it is true, and fulfilling. and they are willing to give their life to God.
Well... as we’ve already discussed, faith and truth are not one and the same. As for "fulfilling", isn’t that quite similar to comfort? I don’t think he did forget anything. You’ve given an account of the comfort and of the purpose in life thing- giving your life to god.
wow i don’t get it. people are given a way to ultimate life, but don’t want it. i don’t get it.
Only if you’re right. Who says somebody else isn’t right, that their religion is right and yours isn’t? They can counterfaith your faith to the faith! What if it turns out the Muslims were right all along? Or the Jews? Or the native americans even? Anybody can counterfaith your faith... it’s one thing to legitamize the fact that there is a god but to say your god is right and everybody else’s is wrong isn’t supportable or considerate. If you’ll notice, I’ve been trying to keep the rguement towards the existance of God, not which religion has the right of it. It’s only ultimate life the way you see it.
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As for the evolution versus design... I’ve yet to see anything at all, be it inconclusive or partially flawed or anything else that says intelligent design happened. I’ll still point to vestigial structures as the main proof for evolution, and use fossils and fossil fuels as at least some sort of evidence in evolution. Whether you accept it or not, evolution has at least something to argue about. Intelligent design is like "Um... yeah... God made us! Who needs proof?" If we were given intelligence, perhaps we should be able to comprehend any cosmic being, perhaps the intelligence is meant for a purpose- to seek truth instead of just claim we have all the answers? |
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| Loosechange911 |
| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:13 pm |
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Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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Quote: wow i don’t get it. people are given a way to ultimate life, but don’t want it. Think i don’t get it.
to think that your belief in eternal life is ACTUALLY true is completely irrational. |
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| macheteman |
| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:11 pm |
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Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 1200
Location: The Jungle
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LC911, you said "I’m not going to call you insane". why not. does it not seem insane that i believe that there is a God who not only has been here from all eternity, and will be for all eternity, but that He is all powerful, all knowing, and cares about the people he created, and He will take them to heaven to be with Him for all eternity? it does seem insane.
and i wasn’t making an argument. actually, i was trying to state that none of our debating will make anyone change their minds. it is impossible to "convince" someone of Christianity. God has to convict them.
I don’t really see how vestigial structures prove evolution. as i have said before, according to Biblical Creationism, God made a perfect world. so there was no need for an immune system. people weren’t going to get sick. Yet, God created us with an immune system to defend us from desease after the fall of man. the appendix (if it doesn’t have a use now) could very possibly have a use in the future. it is very possible that God created vestigial structures because He knows our future needs. |
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| La_Sin_Grail |
| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:36 pm |
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Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 806
Location: Maryland
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macheteman wrote:
and i wasn’t making an argument. actually, i was trying to state that none of our debating will make anyone change their minds. it is impossible to "convince" someone of Christianity. God has to convict them.
I beg to differ. It’s quite possible to convince somebody of Christianity. Look at all the five year olds in church. Game, set, and match.
As for the appendix stuff, it has NO USE and never will have a use. It’s completely useless. So either God just decided to be wasteful and make his own work purposefully imperfect or we evolved. By the way, many "sicknesses" are just mutations (meaning evolved!) forms of things that have been around. Hm... if they can evolve... |
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| macheteman |
| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:29 pm |
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Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 1200
Location: The Jungle
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Quote: I beg to differ. It’s quite possible to convince somebody of Christianity. Look at all the five year olds in church. Game, set, and match.
yes, but true convertion requires God’s conviction.
Quote: As for the appendix stuff, it has NO USE and never will have a use. It’s completely useless. So either God just decided to be wasteful and make his own work purposefully imperfect or we evolved. By the way, many "sicknesses" are just mutations (meaning evolved!) forms of things that have been around. Hm... if they can evolve...
how many experaments have proven that the appendix will never have a use? when you prove that it can’t have a use, you’re on to something. i’m not saying it has a use, i don’t know, i haven’t really studied it. but you can’t prove something won’t have a use in the future. and i still don’t see why (if evolution is true) the appendix hasn’t been done away with, in the procces of natural selection. wich, based on natural selection, indicates it has at least some small task.
before you say that the appendix will never have a use, prove it. since you seem so bent on proof for everything else. |
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| Loosechange911 |
| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:45 pm |
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Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 29
Location:
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I’m not going to call you insane because that would be rude here on the forums. I do think your beliefs are illogical, but I’m not going to resort to slander here. I think my arguments speak for themselves.
However, once again you assume god’s existence. Please prove your premise and then maybe you’ll have an argument. |
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