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Do you think space aliens really exist?

Definitely. Every ten years I have those strange circle marks in my corn field.  
5%
  [ 1 ]  5%
 
Halo has convinced me they exist  
0%
  [ 0 ]  0%
 
Maybe  
50%
  [ 9 ]  50%
 
You'd really have to be really stupid to believe they do  
44%
  [ 8 ]  44%
 

Total Votes : 18
La_Sin_Grail
Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:13 am
Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Maryland
ingold55 wrote:
ok on the subject of carbon dating, did you know that they found a bone or something,1 around 100-200 years old. Carbon dating says the bone was 14,000,000 years old. just a bit inacurate!


I would like to see that in the study. I know they can tell authentic paintings from fakes by carbon dating, and personally, I know scientifically that carbon dating should work reasonably well. As long as they don’t mess up calculations on the half-life of the decaying substances and collect a representative sample, it’s scientifically sound.
fingolfin
Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 3:45 pm
Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 321 Location: it's getting hotter in Iowa every day
I’ve seen theories form both sides...but one of them was that before the catostrophic flood the atmosphere was alot more concentrated and thus less radiation got into the planet, but anyway. A theory says that the rate of decay before the flood was much much high than it is now due to pressure and humidity and stuff like that, so it decayed at such a rate that it looks to be billions of years old.

BTW. I don’t know that this theory is right, and no theory can ever be 100% right because they are just theories, but I think that this makes more sense than stardust.
Soldier: why'd you do that captain?

John Wayne: Because I hate your guts!!

Exerpt from "Iwo Jima."
sickofpalantirs
Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:40 pm
Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 7750 Location: somwhere, over the rainbow way up high. There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby.
La_Sin_Grail wrote:


It takes more than a a few thousand years for fossil fuels to form, even from dead things.

Evolution is a theory, correct, but still, explain fossil fuels!! Also, my World Hist teacher had something interesting to say...

I’m not sure what you mean about the electrical core... why would that mean the earth is 10,000 yrs of less? Makes 0 sense.

One more thing. So you’re saying the dinosaurs were killed in the flood? Why didn’t the dinosaurs kill the people before the flood?

The earth has a magnetic field generated from the core. But since there is no gigantic piece of magnetic solid metal in the core they assume that the magnet is an electro-magnet. Thus there is Electricity in the earths core.
if you can follow that I will explain why if the theory is correct the earth is les then 10,00- years old.
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La_Sin_Grail
Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:23 pm
Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Maryland
sickofpalantirs wrote:
The earth has a magnetic field generated from the core. But since there is no gigantic piece of magnetic solid metal in the core they assume that the magnet is an electro-magnet. Thus there is Electricity in the earths core.
if you can follow that I will explain why if the theory is correct the earth is les then 10,00- years old.


I get that, what I don’t get is the connection between having electricity and age.

anyways, aren’t we only theorizing about what’s in the core, anyway? If were here doubting all theories, I’m going to have to doubt that one, too.

And will somebody please explain fossil fuels??? Nobody saying the Earth is only ten thousand years old has been able to say anything about that.
physcosick
Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:49 pm
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 229 Location:
There isn’t really any excuse that creationalists can insist on us for fossils and fossil fuels other then "God put it there".

So I decided to talk about this here because of last nights drunken philosophical rants of me and my friend. He is a philosphy major and a creationalist. He believes that the earth is less then 10,000 years old. But I dismiss that based on several things: stars, carbon dating, fossils, geographical phenomena, math.

Stars: due to the speed of light, if the universe was created less then 10000 years ago like he suggests/believes, it would be impossible for us to see as many stars in the sky as we do.

Carbon dating: just because there have been a couple cases of miscalculations, doesn’t dismiss it’s validity. Look at lie detector tests, they don’t read everyone correctly. DNA tests, they have a 99% accuracy rate. Repeat that enough times and your bound to find a mistake. Carbon dating has been used a lot to determine dates. What you have to do is look at the big picture and find a trend. So if there are 5000 bones that have been dated somewhat accurately ranging from 100,000-1 million years ago (example... dont take numbers seriously), but there are 5 that are obviously incorrect doesn’t mean anything. It’s one of two things: statistics or some kind of inner problem. Perhaps something in the carbon dating procedure messed up or maybe there was something that caused the process to mess up within the object. If it’s statistics, then if you repeat the process enough times there will have to be some margin of error. And in any bell curve, there is always the chance of outliners.

Fossils: It has been discussed. If there was a God I doubt he’d plant fossils in the ground just to confuse us. The time frame just doesn’t add up.

Geographical phenomena: Basically, I could write a book on this. But that would require alot of research. You just have to look at platetectonics, formations of mountians, developing river systems, evidence within land surface indicating previous floods/volcanoes/etc that can be dated, pockets of air in blocks of ice in th ice caps, etc, etc.

Math: It’s all about statistics really. If you think about it, if the big bang really happened, the chance that it would occur, form earth, and have it placed specifically at the location between the moon and the sun, and create an orbit, and be able to create life which evolves, etc the chance of that is lets assume 0.000000000000000000000000000000013%. Now it is stated that space is infinite. So if you repeat that precentage over and over again an infinite ammount of times, it is bound to happen multiple times (infinite, actually). So right there, I just proved the strong possibilty of life on other planets......


GOOD DAY Applause
ingold55
Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:15 pm
Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 1199 Location: Out on the front line
physcosick wrote:


Stars: due to the speed of light, if the universe was created less then 10000 years ago like he suggests/believes, it would be impossible for us to see as many stars in the sky as we do. Why? the stars could be closer than what they appear, and let us just go on the idea that God did put them there (which i agree with). He could have made the light shine faster at the beginning of time, and slowed it down.

Carbon dating: just because there have been a couple cases of miscalculations, doesn’t dismiss it’s validity. Look at lie detector tests, they don’t read everyone correctly. DNA tests, they have a 99% accuracy rate. Repeat that enough times and your bound to find a mistake. Carbon dating has been used a lot to determine dates. What you have to do is look at the big picture and find a trend. So if there are 5000 bones that have been dated somewhat accurately ranging from 100,000-1 million years ago (example... dont take numbers seriously), but there are 5 that are obviously incorrect doesn’t mean anything. It’s one of two things: statistics or some kind of inner problem. Perhaps something in the carbon dating procedure messed up or maybe there was something that caused the process to mess up within the object. If it’s statistics, then if you repeat the process enough times there will have to be some margin of error. And in any bell curve, there is always the chance of outliners.

I am saying that carbon dating is not just a bit off, but rather alot off. most of the scientist that run carbon dating (if i am correct) are athiest. (kind of biast if you ask me) Carbon dating is just like radio dating. it uses numbers plugged into the computor to estimate not give solid fact date.

Fossils: It has been discussed. If there was a God I doubt he’d plant fossils in the ground just to confuse us. The time frame just doesn’t add up.

God didn’t confuse us, man confused man. he took radia / carbon dating, and tried to match things up. after the fall, fossils started appearing, then the flood happened. the water residue and blasts of water, could have aged the look of bones considerably. (if that is what happened. we don’t know)

Geographical phenomena: Basically, I could write a book on this. But that would require alot of research. You just have to look at platetectonics, formations of mountians, developing river systems, evidence within land surface indicating previous floods/volcanoes/etc that can be dated, pockets of air in blocks of ice in th ice caps, etc, etc.

Look at the flood. it destroyed and changed many land formations. changed plates in the earth, changed the looks of mountains...the list goes on.

Math: It’s all about statistics really. If you think about it, if the big bang really happened, the chance that it would occur, form earth, and have it placed specifically at the location between the moon and the sun, and create an orbit, and be able to create life which evolves, etc the chance of that is lets assume 0.000000000000000000000000000000013%. Now it is stated that space is infinite. So if you repeat that precentage over and over again an infinite ammount of times, it is bound to happen multiple times (infinite, actually). So right there, I just proved the strong possibilty of life on other planets......

It has been proven life cannot come about by and explosion. it is more possible for a tornado to go through a junkyard and a city like San diago. than have an explosion make something so intricate as life. (i have shot fire crackers, they don’t make life!) to have planet with the correct atmosphere, correct heat, correct rotation, correct gravity... is impossible.

GOOD DAY Applause


It has been fun. but i am sorry you haven’t proven life on other planet to me. Confused Neutral
physcosick
Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:44 pm
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 229 Location:
[quote="ingold55"]Why? the stars could be closer than what they appear, and let us just go on the idea that God did put them there (which i agree with). He could have made the light shine faster at the beginning of time, and slowed it down.

NO! Shut up! Thats the exact kind of ignorant talk I’m talking about. The simpsons said it best "we had an exam today about creationalism and all of the answers were ’God did it’". The stars are measured mathematically. Are you denying the laws of math? They are the only thing that can not be defuted. 2+2= 4... are you saying that that is doubtable? It’s not and never will be. Why would God speed up the speed of light just for stars? Thats redic


I am saying that carbon dating is not just a bit off, but rather alot off. most of the scientist that run carbon dating (if i am correct) are athiest. (kind of biast if you ask me) Carbon dating is just like radio dating. it uses numbers plugged into the computor to estimate not give solid fact date.

I never claimed it should be used for a solid date, but as a refrence and a closes "estimate".


God didn’t confuse us, man confused man. he took radia / carbon dating, and tried to match things up. after the fall, fossils started appearing, then the flood happened. the water residue and blasts of water, could have aged the look of bones considerably. (if that is what happened. we don’t know)

Your right, we don’t know exactly, but all this talk about a supreme being and floods and "the fall"... or my theory of time. Which is far fetched?

Look at the flood. it destroyed and changed many land formations. changed plates in the earth, changed the looks of mountains...the list goes on.
[color=green]
I have never seen conclusive evidence of this thing u refer to as the flood. The only thing any where near it is an ice age that occured in North America when the ice caps melted and created many great lakes and rivers, etc.


It has been proven life cannot come about by and explosion. it is more possible for a tornado to go through a junkyard and a city like San diago. than have an explosion make something so intricate as life. (i have shot fire crackers, they don’t make life!) to have planet with the correct atmosphere, correct heat, correct rotation, correct gravity... is impossible.

It’s obviously not impossible. I never said (or I never meant for it to be intererpted in that way) that life came because of the big bang, just that conditions were made to accomodate said life. But regardless, it’s not impossible, there is a small percentage, when spread out throughout an inifnite ammount of space and having an infinite ammount of possible times for it to occur, you are bound to get a few of those situations ( by few i mean an unknown number greater then 1). I don’t understand what you are missing because even my hardcore creationalist philosopher agreed with me on this, and he rarely ever settles.



It has been fun. but i am sorry you haven’t proven life on other planet to me. Confused Neutral

I don’t really care if I didn’t convince you, I’m just trying to shed some light and get you thinking. But I’m not out to make a difference... I don’t want to make a difference... and I’m not going to waste much time talking to you about it if you refuse to understand the validity of mathematics... come to think of it, you were the one that said this:


ingold55 wrote:

I hope you aren’t bad mouthing Bush! He is the leader of the U.S. a hard responsibility. God tells us to pray for our leaders, so that is what he needs more than critisism.


.... so yeah..... Rolling Eyes
La_Sin_Grail
Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:06 pm
Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Maryland
I should have expected your political views given your religious views, but I still think psycho just pulled out the Pocket Aces on your bluff.

that being said, I think psycho should refrain from using language like "shut up" and labeling people’s views. If you want to say a group does something, that’s cool (like Republicans support Bush, which is generally true) but it’s impolite to call their views rediculous.

Prove to me that life cannot come about by an explosion. There’s a chance it can, and a chance it can’t. "It’s obviously not impossible."

As for the Bush thing... I’ve seen many T-shirts at my school that say it all.

"Buck Fush" Razz
physcosick
Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:16 pm
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 229 Location:
I understand completely about my "language" but what I wanted to drift away from with this discussion was labeling things as magical creations that some thing invisioned and just came into being and editted said object to defy laws just to "trick" us and make it appear something it is not what (lol... little inside joke at the last part).

About the political thing, I wasn’t really so much as calling him out because of his conservative aspect to everything... I was mainly going with: I only remember two posts of his and both of them made me slap my forehead in disbelief.... I could say more but I don’t want to flame.

Regardless, you can not disprove math and laws and you can not question the definition of "infinite" or any side effects of an infinte universe with infinite possibilities.

And yes Sin, I did pull out the AA’s. Like I said, I stumped and was talking circles around my philosophy friend. He gets A’s in classes where you just sit there and think trying to disprove or approve theories. So in other words, he talks out of his arse a lot and he is a good debater. But even he couldn’t dig himself out of this hole... it was a first. We’ve had many debates before but not once in any of those times did he ever give in... until now.
corvus
Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:20 pm
Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 1696 Location: Roaming, but dangerous!!!
physcosick wrote:
I have never seen conclusive evidence of this thing u refer to as the flood. The only thing any where near it is an ice age that occured in North America when the ice caps melted and created many great lakes and rivers, etc.


Is that right? I admit i haven’t made any research on that, but i have "heard" that scientists agree that there was some sort of cataclysm...
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