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Loosechange911

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:48 pm

Joined: 14 Oct 2006 Posts: 29 Location:

Logic is the best method of understanding the universe. Why? Because, to the best of human understanding, logic is perfect. The method followed by logic has been used, observed and confirmed to human perfection for as long as human’s have existed. I’m not exactly sure how other animals’ brains work, so I won’t comment.

Absolute truth is the way the universe really is.

I disagree in your statement that if absolute truth exists, it must be findable. I don’t see any reason why this statement has to be true.

Quote:

So one more question. Is faith with a foundation of absolute truth illogical?

Faith is illogical because it asks belief without justification.. If you claim to have absolute truth through faith, then yes, that’s illogical. If you claim to have absolute truth through logic, then there is no need for faith because you have rational justification. I’m not exactly sure I get this question. Sorry.

Anonymous

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:32 pm

Joined: Posts: Location:

Loosechange911 wrote:

Quote:

So one more question. Is faith with a foundation of absolute truth illogical?

Have you ever taken a logic class? read a logic book?

Science is faith you just choose to regard it as so because it gives you tangible satisfaction.

Regardless none of you have taken me on my challenge to move this ’debate’ into anoter direction.

Science and religion are contingent upon one another, so stop arguing the merit of either. Science, the bulk of science originated in religous beliefs, attempts in proving or disproving belief etc.

Case in point, there are many morsels of scientific fact in hebrew texts, they knew the earth was once one land mass, they knew the world was round, they knew you had to wash hands before eating or performing surgery because of germs etc, blot clotting etc, they knew alot, far smartter then other societies of their time.

So you can look at that two ways, either they were smart because of divine guidance or they were just wicked smart and these smart men decided to invent religion to controlt he world, either is your choice.

They had a great understanding of science considering the Hebrew Texts were written up to 4000 years ago.

Later peopel confirmed and disproved these morsels and then you have the birth of science, please please please stop arguing the merit of either, its circular.

Instead, once again, lets argue how evolution started, how the big bang led to rocks coliding and somehow bacteria landing in a perfect environment for life to exist, and how this all happened.

We know that even the placement of the moon and the planets around us are prime in sustaining life and our orbit, so lets discuss this istead of arguing religion and athiesm.

Anonymous

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:38 pm

Joined: Posts: Location:

And I must claify this, we need to argue this without using religious overtures, as it would be pointless to just say ’god placed them there."

Even if one belives this, he ought not use that in this arena.

Merrick_Hale

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:39 pm

Joined: 13 Apr 2006 Posts: 445 Location: Austin, Texas

Loosechange911 wrote:

Logic is only as good as the facts that it starts with. If the facts are perfect, AND the logic is perfectly executed, then the outcome of logic is perfect. However if the facts that the logic starts with and is based upon are faulty, the outcome will be just as faulty (if not more so) than the initial facts.

Loosechange911 wrote:

Absolute truth is the way the universe really is.

Is that a statement of fact or a statement of faith? Is it provable? If so how? Or is this a statement that asks for belief without justification?

Aaron Rhinehart
Rider of Rohan (retired)
DAgent #417 (retired)

This Incognito is a smooth operator - Lem0nhead

Merrick_Hale

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:47 pm

Joined: 13 Apr 2006 Posts: 445 Location: Austin, Texas

MikeAD wrote:

Instead, once again, lets argue how evolution started, how the big bang led to rocks coliding and somehow bacteria landing in a perfect environment for life to exist, and how this all happened.

Again, I state (I’m pretty sure I said this earlier): It is impossible to have a debate about origins without delving into the issue of religion/God/Science because those are the basis upon which and the lenses through which all of the data and facts are evaluated and filtered. In a talk such as this, world view and common terms are everything.

Aaron Rhinehart
Rider of Rohan (retired)
DAgent #417 (retired)

This Incognito is a smooth operator - Lem0nhead

ingold55

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:12 pm

Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 1199 Location: Out on the front line

physcosick wrote:

But you guys claimed that God does not interfere. If he interfered in our lives then innocent people wouldn’t die, etc, etc. So, don’t contradict ourselves. This is one of the things MikeAD was talking about.

ummm...i don’t remember saying that. are you putting words in my mouth?

I believe God does interfere with man. i believe he causes death, and causes life. he influences our decisions (but what do we do)...

But you can’t say innocent people wouldn’t die. because man is not innocent. who are you to know God’s plan? things may look bad, but are they bad. i had a great grandma who was one of the most sted fast people in the world, but she died. However she is with God in heaven right now, and it was her time to go. she might have dispared seeing what is happening in the world, and that would be like torture.

what is good for one person may not be good for another (they think), but it will work out.

physcosick

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:48 pm

Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 229 Location:

You claim that I can’t say innocent people die because I don’t know God’s plan. But you can’t say anything either because you don’t know anything either. All you do is look up from what some book says and constantly find things to constrict more standards...

ingold55

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:48 pm

Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 1199 Location: Out on the front line

physcosick wrote:

however, these standards are the only ones that haven’t changed though out history.

and it can be thown back, all you do is look it up in your brain, that has only devoloped x years, while my "book" has been around for some thousand years.
do you see what i am saying? the Bible holds the answers, and has held them for so long. but a man’s brain is only around for roughly 100 years. which has more wisdom?

TheHobbit13

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 6:00 pm

Joined: 27 Jul 2006 Posts: 1303 Location: minnesota

Very Good Poin Ingold

If you like LOTR then maybe you would like redemption ccg PM me for more info

Loosechange911

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:31 pm

Joined: 14 Oct 2006 Posts: 29 Location:

The Bible changes with time. Do you think that the universe is geocentric? Do you think it is god’s will that mariage be between one man and one OR more women?

Religion, and the Bible, has changed over time in order to survive humanity.

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