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| sickofpalantirs |
 Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 3:32 pm |
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 7750
Location: somwhere, over the rainbow way up high. There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby.
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gil-estel wrote: but you must agree that a gun is designed for one reason: to hurt/kill another person.
and a sword is designed for what purpose? or a crossbow? or a mace?
gil-estel wrote: Without guns you would see a drastic decrease of casualties. I can show you an Austrian study concerning this subject....but he, I;m not here to convert people, I just try make my point....
OK you example was someone who wanted to feel secure, NOT someone who wanted to commit murder. I think your example itself is flawed. Ask some of these people who have guns. do they feel insecure? So if the nervous people didn’t have guns there would be less killing. Is that your point? what about people who get guns illegally and kill just because they want to? would gun control really effect them? and can you give me a case(prolly is one but still) of someone who was carrying a gun around and just randomly pulled it out and shot someone? |
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| Turin06 |
| Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:06 pm |
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Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 197
Location: Good Question
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You Americans and your guns.
Seriously though you say that people should be aloud guns for their own security but I certainly feel more secure here in England because hardly anyone has guns. A society without guns is much safer and when I lived in America when i was a child I certainly found it quite scary to see guns everywhere.
You say that a bow and arrow or crossbow is just as effective as a gun but this is far from the truth. The gun is a far more efficient, quick and deadly weapon than any other method of murder. I mean can you really imagine someone trying a drive-by shooting with a crossbow. That fact is that throughout history the human race has constantly thought of better and bettter ways of killing itself, that is until we reached Nuclear weapons when we realised that we could go no further. |
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| Shieldmaiden |
| Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:21 pm |
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Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 389
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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I don’t want to offend anyone either. Believe me, I am an American (California born and bred), and I used to love owning a gun (had a .45 with snake shot, for killing rattlers).
Now I live in the UK. Words cannot say what a difference there is in crime over here. I don’t want guns anymore.
I’ll let a few facts speak for themselves:
Population of Illinois in 2004: 12,600,000 (approx)
Number of gun deaths in Illinois in 2004: 994
Population of Great Britain in 2004: 60,200,000 (approx)
Number of gun deaths in Great Britain in 2004: 168
GB has more than 4 times more people than Illinois, but Illinois has much more than 5 times the gun deaths. And this is just a state that I randomly chose. I’ll bet that if you took a state with more gangs, such as California or New York, the numbers would be greater.
I used to be against gun control, but now I’m for it. It’s just my opinion, though, not like it’s going to change anything.  |
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| Turin06 |
| Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:28 pm |
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Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 197
Location: Good Question
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consider this- after the second world war only America had a Nuclear weapon, in 1949 the USSR also gained a nuclear weapon. Was the World a safer place because everyone was on the same footing and so could ’defend themselves’. Did the world feel more secure? No there was forty years of tension and fear. Is a world where everyone has Nuclear weapons safer than a world where nobody has nuclear weapons.
It’s all a matter of oppinion. The man staring down the barrel of gun at someone is, of course going to feel more secure. However this does not mean that society is more secure because you simply now have a situation with lots of people staring down guns at each other.
We here prefer to see our safety in the hands of proffesionals such as the police. We are only just starting to see the effects of gang warfare here in England, although I know it has been rife in America for years mostly because of the ease of bying a gun. We are seeing more and more gun murders all the time. I can’t imagine how bad it would get if guns were easily available here. |
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| AgentDrake |
| Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:41 pm |
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Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 667
Location: Halfway between eccentric and insane...
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Shieldmaiden wrote: I
I’ll let a few facts speak for themselves:
Population of Illinois in 2004: 12,600,000 (approx)
Number of gun deaths in Illinois in 2004: 994
Population of Great Britain in 2004: 60,200,000 (approx)
Number of gun deaths in Great Britain in 2004: 168
...do these #s of "gun deaths" include things like hunting accidents, use of guns merely as blunt objects, suicides, et cetera, or just intentional violent crime?
(Just wondering. You could still make a case that it’s irrelevant, as guns would be involved in either case.)
And guns are not designed for "one purpose (killing/maiming other humans.)"
1. Deterrent force (AKA, the policeman has a gun....)
2. Hunting
There’s others, but I’m too lazy after an 8 hour work day of pulling weeds to try to think of them. 
As for Technological escalation within war:
This is inevitable, and cannot be prevented. Technological advancement cannot be prevented (you just try to prevent every person in the world from coming up with "a better way to do it") and all technological advancement can be abused. Those which are most particularly abusable find their way into warfare, forcing escalation on the other side (Ie, WW2: Hitler wanted nukes and would’ve used them, so America had to get them first. Granted, the European theater of the war ended before either side ended up using them, but...) |
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| macheteman |
| Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 6:03 pm |
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Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 1200
Location: The Jungle
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all through history nations have fallen. become corrupted, oppressed their people, and fallen. America has given her citizens the right to keep and bear arms to protect them in case another country, or America itself becomes oppressive. and granted countries with gun control may have low gun deaths, but what happens in the future when the country becomes corrupted, and the their is no protection? and nation after nation has fallen all through history.
i also wonder how many of the "gun deaths" in America are from people protecting themselves and others from crimminals.
and i suppose in counties with gun control there is no hunting allowed. so do farmers just sit by and watch their crops get eaten trying to get the deer/groundhogs/whateverelse away saying "shoo shoo get out of here"?
and what if someone gets bitten by a rattlesnake and dies. a gun could have saved their life.
my point is that guns can be used for good or bad, and the problem is not with the guns, or people having guns. but rather with the people themselves. people are capable of all kinds of evil. and they have been killing each other for thousands of years. they won’t stop because of gun control.
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| bunnydaman |
| Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 6:33 pm |
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Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 338
Location: 'hillbilliesville'
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| ha ha. I forgot to mention that I have a compound bow... |
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| gil-estel |
| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:11 am |
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Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Posts: 545
Location: Groningen, the Netherlands
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hmmm, I think we all made our points. Isn’t lotr a nice game?! ........
Oh and I don’t own a gun  |
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| sickofpalantirs |
| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:28 pm |
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 7750
Location: somwhere, over the rainbow way up high. There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby.
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| ingold55 |
| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:06 pm |
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Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 1199
Location: Out on the front line
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Guns keep peace just as much as they cause trouble. It is all who has the gun. If you limit guns for law abiding citizens, criminals can still get their hands on guns then how do you protect yourself.
Guns also help keep the government in check. They can’t take the government over so easy.
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