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| hawkeyespf |
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:12 pm |
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Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 198
Location: Round Lake IL
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NBarden wrote: The Muslim worldview says kill all Christians and Jews. Its an inherently violent religion. I challenge you to find anything like that in a Christian worldview.
Also, this nation was founded upon Christianity. Since you asked me not to bring up any more quotes, I take it that that’s a given. If not, I have more quotes. So its natural that a Christian worldview would permeate government.
And no, I wouldn’t be comfortable. You probably wouldn’t be comfortable with a Christian president. However, it is their right and we couldn’t stop it, if they were legally elected.
Wow. Just wow. I really am dumbfounded. I’m sitting here, my jaw on the floor after what you just wrote. That was one of the most uneducated, blind-to-reality attacks on a religion I’ve ever heard.
First of all, let’s get one thing straight: I was raised Catholic, and though I do not feel the need to worship, I do have my own relationship with God. I always have been, and will continue to be, comfortable with a Christian president, given that he or she does his or her job based on the will of the people who elected him or her.
You really are narrow minded if you believe that Islam is a violent religion and the world view of Muslims is to kill all Christians and Jews. In the reality that the rest of us live in, Islam is one of the most peaceful religions out there. It is because of people like Osama (Islam’s George W) who are intolerant of religions not their own that you believe the entirety of the religion is evil. You believe that every Muslim is out there just waiting to kill all the Christians and Jews they can because Osama and Al-queda use Islam as a point of reference among his people. If he ties his war to a religion, his cause will gain favor among the blind followers. Those followers now believe they are doing Allah’s will when it is not.
Really, what is it going to take to convince you that this country was NOT founded upon Christianity? Huh? I asked you not to quote the Bible because I want you to think for yourself for once. Connect some dots man, it ain’t that hard. The founding fathers were already Christian. They did not feel that having a state religion was the way to go. They chose to break away from Great Britain for many reasons, but one of them was to guarantee certain individual rights, including the right to worship whoever, however, wherever, whenever, and for whatever reason a person wants.
Funny, you talk about legally electing a president - that’s really quite funny when W is the only president in the recent history of this country to lose the popular vote and still win the presidency.
Remind me to send you on an all-expenses paid trip to Dearborn Michigan sometime, alright? |
When we do it in Iraq, it's called progress. When we do it here in the US, it's called socialism.
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| sickofpalantirs |
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:06 pm |
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 7750
Location: somwhere, over the rainbow way up high. There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby.
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| The Koran commands people to kill. There is a book I will recommend you read once I ask my mom what it was called. It was exposing Islam for what it was. Whether people believe it to the letter is an entirely different matter. |
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| man_flesh |
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:51 pm |
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Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 18
Location: MA
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NBarden wrote: When someone raises an attack on my religion, its only natural to defend it.
Christianity is not the state religion. This doesn’t mean that Christians cannot hold office, cannot make their views known in office, and cannot base their decisions on a Christian worldview. It just means that they can’t force everyone to become Christians, not that Christianity is supposed to be completely separate from government.
As for Christian democrats, I know they exist. Look at Zel Miller. I have some Christian friends who are democrat. However, on the whole, things that the Democratic party advocates, such as abortion, gay marriage, and other social issues are core reasons why I’m a republican. Economic issues are a side point, although I tend to lean Republican on those as well. As said, Christianity doesn’t really tell you what to think on economic issues.
However, the social issues are enough for me to go Republican.
First off, not attacking your religion dude. I think religion and spirituality are great. There is nothing wrong with Christians in politics. My only problem with most Christian politicians (most republicans) is that they beat the social issue drum to get support from the conservative Christians who don’t like abortion of gay marriage. Those are the two issues most Christians vote on (NB you even said it yourself). In the grand scheme of things these issues pale in comparison to the real important issues. People in our own country are starving and struggling to get by while taxes are cut for the rich and huge corporations are given federal funding. 36 million people (including children) are uninsured as the gap between the poor and the rich continues to grow. The middle class is disappearing. There are hundreds of people dying in Iraq everyday because of a poor decision a "Christian president" made. Families ripped apart, children starving, widows weeping, and brave American soldiers paying the ultimate sacrifice. For what?
I don’t beleive in abortion, but I also know history. Women are going to have them whether they are legal or not. When they were illegal many women died. I don’t believe in gay marriage (although I see nothing wrong about giving gays the same rights through civil unions), but why do we need to stop others from living their lives the way they want to live them? Why are we here? From a Christian perspective, to make choices. Let others make there choices. Why legislate morality?
I hope this puts things in perspective.
Ps Zell Miller was not a Democrat. Louisiana was one of the last Southern states to make the transition from the democrat to republican party. He was elected during that time frame. He was a democrat in name only. |
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| sickofpalantirs |
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:45 am |
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 7750
Location: somwhere, over the rainbow way up high. There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby.
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man_flesh wrote:
First off, not attacking your religion dude. I think religion and spirituality are great. There is nothing wrong with Christians in politics. My only problem with most Christian politicians (most republicans) is that they beat the social issue drum to get support from the conservative Christians who don’t like abortion of gay marriage. Those are the two issues most Christians vote on (NB you even said it yourself). In the grand scheme of things these issues pale in comparison to the real important issues.
Gay marriage yes, does pale to some things. But abortion? I don’t think so many would happen if it was made illegal. These are babies dying. If moms can have abortions without legal repercussions, why do we prosecute moms who kill their kids? |
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| Turin06 |
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:51 am |
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Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 197
Location: Good Question
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| Here in Britain Muslims make up a much larger percentage of the population than in America and are far better integrated intop our society. I have several close freainds who are muslims and so i was shocked at NBardens comment about Islam. Islam is not an inherantly violent religion. None of the Muslims I have ever met would ever sanction terrorism in any way and hate the way people like NBarden demonize their religion. Do many people in America really have this view? |
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| hawkeyespf |
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:56 am |
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Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 198
Location: Round Lake IL
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| NBarden |
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:00 pm |
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Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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| hawkeyespf |
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:21 pm |
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Joined: 25 Oct 2006
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| NBarden |
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:27 pm |
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Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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Read it. Confirms my ideas. True muslims are violent, those who don’t follow the Koran aren’t. Not sure whether I’d rather have a terrorist as a president or someone who won’t follow the religion he claims to believe in.
But true Islam, those who follow the Koran, is inherently violent. Read this quote from your site...
Jerry Falwell said that "...Muhammad was a terrorist. I’ve read enough of the history of his life written by both Muslims and non-Muslims, that he was a violent man, a man of war." 6,7 That particular comment triggered a riot in India which killed at least 14 people.
Interesting, isn’t it? |
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| hawkeyespf |
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:33 pm |
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Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 198
Location: Round Lake IL
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See, reading what you post makes me think that you didn’t actually read it at all. Wonder why Falwell’s comment instigated a riot that killed 14 people? Probably because Muslims who passionately disagreed with him were defending their religion, just as you would.
You must have missed the quote regarding W’s feelings at the beginning of the article though:
Quote: The President of the United States, George W. Bush, has emphasized that "Islam is Peace" on a number of occasions.
And how about this one, regarding the divirsity within Islam as well as within Christianity:
Quote: Which point of view is right?
They both are.
Islam is not a homogenous religion. It is divided into many subgroups, including Sunni, Shi’ite, and Sufi. A very small, radical, hate-filled, extremist, Fundamentalist, terrorist wing does exist. So too does a much larger peaceful, moderate wing. Unfortunately, the former seem to capture all the media’s attention, while the latter is rarely heard from.
It obvious that no one individual speaks for all Muslims. Islam has no single central authority, comparable to the pope and Vatican for the Roman Catholic Church, or to various General Assemblies and the Lambeth Conferences for the Anglican Communion. Rather, it is divided into many traditions and schools.
This phenomenon is true of most religions. Consider the over 1,000 Christian groups in North America. They include some hate-filled groups as well:
The Christian Identity movement.
Various white supremacist organizations which usually consider themselves to be Christians.
The terrorists who blew up the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City.
But yes, I do believe it’s interesting that you can read a website when you are so blind. |
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