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| MR. Lurtzy |
 Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:08 am |
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Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 423
Location: Living with the Governator
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Turin06 wrote: MR. Lurtzy wrote: Gagnut wrote: Who doesn’t?
I kinda like freedom.
What kind of an answer is that? If it was utopia then you would have freedom. Thats why it’s a utopia.
A proper definition of a perfect and real place is eutopia. Utopia on this planet will result in socialism, which is a compromise on your rights and I kinda like my rights and freedoms. |
'On and on old war shall go,
Without respite my blood will flow
O’er your eyes ‘til they cannot see
The impossibility of victory.'
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| Turin06 |
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:49 am |
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Joined: 24 Oct 2006
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| If it compromised your freedoms and rights then it wouldn’t be a perfect place and so wouldn’t be a utopia would it? |
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| MR. Lurtzy |
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:17 pm |
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| It is not possible to get a "utopia" on this planet. So, I’d say that a utopia would be a bad thing, seeing as it is being influenced by people, who are inherently evil. (I think that’s in the Bible or some other religious thingy) |
'On and on old war shall go,
Without respite my blood will flow
O’er your eyes ‘til they cannot see
The impossibility of victory.'
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| Turin06 |
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:48 pm |
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MR. Lurtzy wrote: It is not possible to get a "utopia" on this planet. So, I’d say that a utopia would be a bad thing, seeing as it is being influenced by people, who are inherently evil. (I think that’s in the Bible or some other religious thingy)
That logic doesn’t lead you anywhere because with that logic you can say that anything humans try is bad because were inherently evil therefore why try anything because it’ll all be bad. The inherently evil excuse is just something people use to fob off something their not comfortable with. Plus christians should never use it because if they knew there own faith properly then they would know that because they have been justified by the grace of god and because they have his spirit living in them daily they are no longer inherently evil but inherently good through jesus.
I hate it when people say they can’t try to make the world perfect because humans are inherently evil. I’ve always believed that we should aim for perfect so that when we fall short, which we always will, we are as close as possible. The inherent evil argument is for lazy people. |
Between the conception
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| MR. Lurtzy |
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:52 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2007
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| I have to disagree on this. A utopia made by us would be far less ineffective then Capitalism, or for that matter Socialism. The fact is, every utopia that we "make" would quickly degrade into socialism, communism, or even totalitarism. People cannot spend their whole life sharing everything they have. This will cause corruption, stealing, etc... Utopia has not worked and it will never work here. |
'On and on old war shall go,
Without respite my blood will flow
O’er your eyes ‘til they cannot see
The impossibility of victory.'
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| MR. Lurtzy |
| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:01 am |
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Turin06 wrote: I hate it when people say they can’t try to make the world perfect because humans are inherently evil. I’ve always believed that we should aim for perfect so that when we fall short, which we always will, we are as close as possible. The inherent evil argument is for lazy people.
You can try to make this place better, but a utopia WILL NOT WORK. I hate it when people say they get mad at people who try to make the world better in a way other than what they want. Helping the poor is one thing that I do all the time. In fact I’m sponsoring a boy in Albania right now. The fact is, you can make the world a better place, but you are still inherently evil. |
'On and on old war shall go,
Without respite my blood will flow
O’er your eyes ‘til they cannot see
The impossibility of victory.'
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| Elessar's Socks |
| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:41 am |
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Joined: 29 Jul 2007
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I’ve heard that the best form of government is a benevolent dictatorship. Basically some wise and enlightened ruler would guide the rest of us rabble when needed, and while it wouldn’t be utopia per se, we’d be pretty darn happy. Someone who remembers Plato’s The Republic better than I can correct me, but I think he was also getting at it with the idea of philosopher-kings.
The way I see it, some of the faults of democracy can actually be a safeguard (sluggishness/stability), and while people remain imperfect, maybe it’s better than some forms of government that can flipflop between golden ages and bloody strife.
I’m curious though, is there any governing body in the world that alternates forms of government on a regular, planned basis? For example four years of democracy, then one year of dictatorship, then four years of democracy again, etc. Not that I’m eager to be the guinea pig, but I wonder how that would work out. |
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| NBarden |
| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:36 am |
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Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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| gil-estel |
| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:30 pm |
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Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Posts: 545
Location: Groningen, the Netherlands
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btw I hate, really hate it that people have no clue about socialism at all!!! Everyone is throwing non-arguments at me and others that have socialist ideas, or at least have symphaties in that direction.
SOCIALISM IS ALL ABOUT FREEDOM, REAL FREEDOM.....sorry, but had to shout it. And I’m not talking about Leninsm, Stalinism, Chrustnovism or what ever communistic leader-ism, I’m talking about the core of socialism, about Marx and his piece of writing. And don’t get me started on this guy, cause I have carefully studied him. So I know that after his sharp analysis of society he is carried away about his utopian state.
So again, I know what an Utopy is, but don’t debate if you don’t know what you’re talking about. Don’t burn others because of they have other ideas. Capitalism isn’t the best solution, socialism is. Capitalism works, socialism doesn’t........ |
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| Turin06 |
| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:48 pm |
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| Thanks Gil-Estel that is apretty great end to the argument. You expressed pretty much the way I feel about it. And Mr Lurtzy I wasn’t saying that we would ever be able to make a utopia cos it’s impossible I was merely argueing that you can’t say a utopia would be a bad thing because a utopia is perfect so we’d all be happy. However I am fully aware that we cannot make a utopia because we are human so a human made ’utopia’ wouldn’t actually be a utopia at all. I think that we misunderstood each other more than anything. |
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