| Author |
Message |
| gil-estel |
 Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:35 pm |
|
|
|
Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Posts: 545
Location: Groningen, the Netherlands
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Turin06 |
| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:12 am |
|
|
|
Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 197
Location: Good Question
|
| I’m not saying that Capitalism is wrong, I’m saying that Capitalism in it’s most ruthless form is wrong. Here in England we are a capitalist country but we also have some socialist elements which keep our society human and give poor people a chance. The American Dream believes that a person can take himself out of poverty by working hard enough. But I’m afraid that in modern America that is simply not true (and I have done a study on this at college so I know what I am talking about), the minimum wage is too small and the health system too crippling. Here in England we still recognise the importance of hard work to improve yourself but we also do all we can to help people to improve themselves through free health care, a high minimum wage and welfare. I don’t want to seem like I hate America, I lived there from the age of 8-13 and they were fantastic years. However I would never swap the British system for the American system because we have found a balance whereas America sadly has not. |
Between the conception
And the creation
Between the emotion
And the response
Falls the Shadow |
|
| Back to top |
|
| Celebrimbor |
| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:46 am |
|
|
|
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 953
Location: UNKNOWN
|
Turin I read one of your first posts in this thread...
Anyway, as the line in the Constitution goes, "all men are created equal" does not mean the same wealth and/or social status allotted for each individual person. It means that we are all equal under the law, under God. There is always going to be an element of "unfairness" in this world. |
My Trading List
Popcorn is not gooey like fat, and also not crunchy like potato chips, but crispy like lettuce which makes it a healthy snack.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
| Turin06 |
| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:11 pm |
|
|
|
Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 197
Location: Good Question
|
There is always going to be an element of "unfairness" in this world.
That is true but I also feel that it is right to try and make things as fair as possible while not restricting people’s freedoms. The trouble is finding that line where trying to make things fair crosses into a restriction of freedom and over the top control. |
Between the conception
And the creation
Between the emotion
And the response
Falls the Shadow |
|
| Back to top |
|
| Gate Troll |
| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:38 pm |
|
|
|
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 384
Location: Udun Vale, Home of the one and only... Gate Troll!
|
| Define ’Freedom’. |
| "Wars may be fought with weapons, but they are won by men. It is the spirit of the men who follow and of the man who leads that gains that victory."-George S. Patton. |
|
| Back to top |
|
| NBarden |
| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:51 pm |
|
|
|
Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 5468
Location: I don't know...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| gil-estel |
| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:56 pm |
|
|
|
Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Posts: 545
Location: Groningen, the Netherlands
|
How on EARTH are you going to redistribute wealth without infringing on someone’s freedom? Its not possible. Redistribution of wealth is wrong. Dead wrong. And that’s exactly what the book is advocating, that’s socialism. In its extreme, the term used for it is "communism", and we saw how that turned out in Russia and China.[/quote]
Just out of curiousity, what if the rest of the world, like the other 60-70%, starts to think the way you do...and starts to consume the way you do, maybe think of that. The whole idea about capitalism is to achieve personal, mostly material goals. We need to realize that in the pace that the Western world is consuming we’re exhausting the world..so maybe it;s not such a bad idea to cut down some of our wealth and share it with others..just an idea! Oh and communism failed not in it’s essense, it’s the people who blew it.......like watching the katholic church (in some tragic cases) and say that Christianity is about molesting young children...[/quote] |
My trading list
My main wants
My refs |
|
| Back to top |
|
| NBarden |
| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:50 pm |
|
|
|
Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 5468
Location: I don't know...
|
Have you read the Communist Manifesto? I have. And I can assure you that redistribution of wealth is what communism is about. Have you read the Bible? I have. And I can assure you that molesting young children is in direct violation of Scripture.
Capitalism is not perfect, but because people will ALWAYS blow it, its the best we can do. The two systems are based on two different assumptions about the character of man, and indeed two completely different worldviews.
Communism: Man is good.
Capitalism: Man is evil.
And man is inherently evil. If you want to debate that further, I am fully prepared to debate it with you. But under the world we live in, there is only one economic system that will work, and it is Capitalism.
P.S. Notice that in The Bible, the book of Acts, the early church was extremely communistic. That is because the only society in which communism works is where people are good. The early church strove to live as good citizens, but also read Acts chapter 5. Here’s a link http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Act/Act005.html#top
Communism relied on the church striving to be good, and when that didn’t happen, take a look at what came about. |
 -Trade With Me
Add the popcorn smiley to your sig, help it achieve world domination.
What if the hokey pokey really IS what its all about? 
As I lay in bed staring at the stars last night, I thought to myself, "where the heck is the ceiling?"
 Spotlight on....Sense of Obligation. |
|
| Back to top |
|
| Gate Troll |
| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:59 pm |
|
|
|
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 384
Location: Udun Vale, Home of the one and only... Gate Troll!
|
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism |
| Last edited by Gate Troll on Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:16 pm; edited 1 time in total"Wars may be fought with weapons, but they are won by men. It is the spirit of the men who follow and of the man who leads that gains that victory."-George S. Patton. |
|
| Back to top |
|
| Gate Troll |
| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:03 pm |
|
|
|
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 384
Location: Udun Vale, Home of the one and only... Gate Troll!
|
gil-estel wrote:
NBarden wrote: How on EARTH are you going to redistribute wealth without infringing on someone’s freedom? Its not possible. Redistribution of wealth is wrong. Dead wrong. And that’s exactly what the book is advocating, that’s socialism. In its extreme, the term used for it is "communism", and we saw how that turned out in Russia and China.
Just out of curiousity, what if the rest of the world, like the other 60-70%, starts to think the way you do...and starts to consume the way you do, maybe think of that. The whole idea about capitalism is to achieve personal, mostly material goals. We need to realize that in the pace that the Western world is consuming we’re exhausting the world..so maybe it;s not such a bad idea to cut down some of our wealth and share it with others..just an idea! Oh and communism failed not in it’s essense, it’s the people who blew it.......like watching the katholic church (in some tragic cases) and say that Christianity is about molesting young children...
Are you saying that some people shouldn’t have to work? Capatalism is based on every man working hard for himself. It disgusts me that you people want to take the profit of one man’s hard labor and give it to someone else.
You know what, diffrent people have diffrent work ethics; you can not take something that a man worked hard for and give it to someone else.
You seem to like flaunting the words ’fair’ and ’sharing’, however communism is un-fair because it takes one man’s goods and gives it to someone else. I don’t how many times I have to say this. -GT |
| "Wars may be fought with weapons, but they are won by men. It is the spirit of the men who follow and of the man who leads that gains that victory."-George S. Patton. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Forum index » General Discussion » Members' Lounge