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| Gate Troll |
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:05 pm |
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Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 384
Location: Udun Vale, Home of the one and only... Gate Troll!
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If you are a Conservative like I am you will find
this extremely disturbing: Why Mommy is a Democrat Or look at the
sample pages: The first picture’s caption reads: "Democrats make sure we all share our toys, just like Mommy does." That is so obviously communist it’s not even funny. Just like Stalin, Ho Chi Min, Pol Pot, Lenin ...etc. The second pictures reads: " Democrats make sure we are always safe just like Mommy." But wait! How can ’Mommy’ protect us? Whats is she to use, her hands? After all Democrats don’t want us to have guns to protect ourselves. I find this extremely contradictory... ...Anyway someone should send the author an e-mail. |
| "Wars may be fought with weapons, but they are won by men. It is the spirit of the men who follow and of the man who leads that gains that victory."-George S. Patton. |
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| Turin06 |
Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:56 am |
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Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 197
Location: Good Question
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The first picture’s caption reads: "Democrats make sure we all share our toys, just like Mommy does." That is so obviously communist it’s not even funny. Just like Stalin, Ho Chi Min, Pol Pot, Lenin ...etc
There are so many funny things about this statement it’s just sad.
1) Good old American paranoia. You are all so ready to spring the C word on anything even a tiny bit socialist.
2) Believe it or not sharing is not meerly a principle for communists, it is a principle for NICE people. You need to learn that die hard ruthless capitalism such as the one that is worshipped by some Americans is not synonimous with FREE.
3) The fact that you think all communists are like the dictators you mentioned is laughable. Communism is an ideal which if it worked would create a great society. The reason it created these oppressive states is because it doesn’t work on a nation wide level and because it was taken advantage of by the above dictators. Communism is not evil, if anything it is a more kind and benevolent ideal than capitalism because it is about equality and fairness rather than every man for himself.
Before you slate me I would just like to point out that I am NOT an Communist. However I am a Christian and so I believe in fairness and equality for all men and so I sympathise with the ideal of communism. |
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| Shieldmaiden |
Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:57 am |
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Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 389
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Turnin, you said exactly what I wanted to say, but I couldn’t think of the right way to say it.
As many of you know, I am an American living abroad. I am proud to be an American, but in a different way than I used to be. Living in a different country gives you a whole new perspective on the world.
Britain is not a socialist country, but it has a socialist system or two, the National Health Service being one of them. When I first came over, my family in the States warned me that I would not receive adequate health care because of "that socialist system." Quite the contrary, my family here in Britain have been very well cared for by the NHS through a myriad of health problems (my kids through many childhood ailments and myself through the birth of a child and a major emergency surgery). And I didn’t have to fill out a tome of hospital entry forms each time, nor did I have to worry if my insurance would cover the bills.
I’m not saying that America is wrong. What I’m saying is that, just because another country has a different system from America, it doesn’t mean that that country’s ways are evil or inferior.
That’s something that I’ve noticed since I’ve come over here: many Americans want to label anything different from their own ideals as wrong, evil, or inferior. Words such as "liberal" and "communist" are used to demonize people and foreign countries. Things are not so black and white as the media and government would like the people to believe.
Oh, and as a mommy, I can tell you that I keep my children safe without the use of guns.
Okay, getting off of my soapbox now.  |
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| Gate Troll |
Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:14 am |
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Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 384
Location: Udun Vale, Home of the one and only... Gate Troll!
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Turin06 wrote: The first picture’s caption reads: "Democrats make sure we all share our toys, just like Mommy does." That is so obviously communist it’s not even funny. Just like Stalin, Ho Chi Min, Pol Pot, Lenin ...etc
There are so many funny things about this statement it’s just sad.
1) Good old American paranoia. You are all so ready to spring the C word on anything even a tiny bit socialist.
My friend, it is not a tiny bit socialist, it is very socialist.
socialism n. 1. Public collective ownership of or control of the basic means of production distribution
and exchange, with the avowed aim of operating for use rather than profit, and of assuring to each member
of society an equitable share of goods, services, etc. 2. The doctrines of those advocating this system.
communism n. 1. A social system characterized by the communal sharing of goods and services. 2. A theory of social change advocating a classless society, public ownership of almost all productive , and the
sharing of the products of labor. 3. Often cap. the system in force in any state based on this theory.
Good old American paranoia? I think not. Democrats making people share is the same as
the Komitet Gosudarstvennoy Bezopasnosti redistributing wealth.
2) Believe it or not sharing is not merely a principle for communists, it is a principle for NICE people. You need to learn that die hard ruthless capitalism such as the one that is worshipped by some Americans is not synonymous with FREE.
You are guilty of the straw-man fallacy; I do not ‘worship’ capitalism, in fact I have never even mentioned it! Once again; I am not saying sharing is only for communists, after all what is sharing; willingly lending
or giving to another person. The Communist Manifesto, advocates forced sharing: that is, redistributing of
goods to everyone. Now what you mean by ‘nice’ I do not know. Do you mean government officials making us ‘share’ with the threat of force? Or do you mean someone sharing out of the kindness of their heart?
3) The fact that you think all communists are like the dictators you mentioned is laughable. Communism is an ideal which if it worked would create a great society. The reason it created these oppressive states is because it doesn’t work on a nation wide level and because it was taken advantage of by the above dictators. Communism is not evil, if anything it is a more kind and benevolent ideal than capitalism because it is about equality and fairness rather than every man for himself.
My friend I’m afraid you’re still wrapped up in the idea of a wonderful communist utopia,
However we cannot just look at wonderful it would be if it worked, we must also look at it’s dark side.
Every single communist nation to date has been ruled by a dictator and inforced by secret police. Just because people like Pol Pot and Stalin killed millions of people does not mean they never existed
Communism will only ever work if everyone has the same work ethic. Let me explain in layman’s
terms: Say one man, we’ll call him Bill, has four pigs. Let’s suppose his lazy neighbor, we’ll call
him Mike, has no pigs. The communists would make Bill give lazy Mike two of his pigs. Well eventually;
tired of seeing Mike split half of all his hard-worked goods will stop working; after all, he’ll still be as well
off as his lazy neighbor but he won’t have to work. etc.. etc.. This is the same as democrats taking tax money from hard-working middle-class people and giving it to the lazy. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not that all poor people are lazy; I’m just saying a large percentage are.
Before you slate me I would just like to point out that I am NOT a Communist. However I am a Christian and so I believe in fairness and equality for all men and so I sympathize with the ideal of
communism.
I am a Christian as well and I believe in fairness and equality too; but not forced equality of goods.
I believe that all men are fallible so although you have this idea that all governments are benevolent
they are comprised of fallible men-GT
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| Shieldmaiden |
Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:47 am |
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Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 389
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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I took a look at that link. I would like to say that, while I firmly stand by what I said above, I completely disagree with putting out a book like this.
My aversion to this book has nothing to do with communism, socialism, democrats, republicans or anything else you want to stick on it. What bothers me about this book is that it seems like an exercise in brainwashing. It’s everything I hate about the media: let’s sugarcoat everything, dumb it down and make out as if our own ideals are the only correct ones. Start grinding your twisted tales into the children, while they’re still young and gullible. Then, when they get older, it will be so ingrained that they will never see the truth. It makes me sick.
And you’re right about one thing, Gate Troll, it IS scary (although, for me, not for the same reasons that it’s scary for you). |
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| corvus |
Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:04 am |
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Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 1696
Location: Roaming, but dangerous!!!
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| This topic’s subject should be changed..... |
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| NBarden |
Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:28 pm |
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Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 5468
Location: I don't know...
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This book is just plain wrong. The democrats are allowed to believe what they believe, but to put it in a children’s book is just plain wrong. Also, the book was read at school, where parent’s didn’t have any control of what their children were learning.
It seems to me that this is a brainwashing technique. BTW, I wouldn’t term it communist, but it is definitely socialistic.
Also, what’s wrong with capitalism anyway? If you work hard to establish a big business, shouldn’t you be rewarded? Or do you think that a bum who never worked a day in his life should get the same amount of money as someone who works hard to establish a successful business? Oh wait, they already do, welfare. |
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| ingold55 |
Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:40 pm |
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Joined: 10 Oct 2005
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Location: Out on the front line
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We in America see the oppressed and needy. We lend a hand. We see children dying from starvation, we lend a hand. We see communistic dictators controlling the government, not allowing Christianity, forcing others to share what they have worked hard for. We do the best we can to lend a hand.
Communism is not such a scary thing over here, but it is a thing that does deserve fear. It is something we don’t want in America, but we are slowly being closed in on.
Having a fear of something we don’t agree with is not wrong, it can be healthy, but it can be wrong if you go berserks over it. |
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| gil-estel |
Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:48 pm |
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Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Posts: 545
Location: Groningen, the Netherlands
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Ah the good old discussion about communism and capitalism! In theory, with both systems is nothing wrong. They are just two ways of filling in life it self. My sympathy goes out to communism, allthough I know in this world it will never work. Why? Because of human nature. We are all self-centered and that’s why the only workable system is capitalism. Fukayama, a well-known historian said it. With the fall of true communism, the world’s history came to an end. We all march in the pace of economy. Money is our main goal. Look at worlds politics, it’s all to keep the money flowing. Choises are made, not to serve men’s best interest, but te save as much money possible. I believe Micheal Moore’s new movie is about this theme. And I don’t acuse America being the only bad example, I know for a fact that here in the Netherlands we join the Euro/dollar-train.
Capitalism has become a religion. As well as you got Muslim-fundamentalists, Christian-fundamentalists there are way to many liberal-fundamentalists. Serving your own goals is the highest value....sadly. Jesus said, I’m here not to rule, but to serve. Serve others, not by giving them opportunities, mechanics to maybe increase the level of life...no by reaching out to eachother, when you see people are struggling. |
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| NBarden |
Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:32 pm |
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Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 5468
Location: I don't know...
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Capitalism is prized over anything else in America, sometimes. And it has its flaws. However, as you said, it is the only system that could work.
Communism does have good points, but as we saw with Russia and China, it simply doesn’t work. Neither does socialism.
However, we are not debating Socialism vs Communism here, we are debating the book, and its sick to see how low Democrats will to push their agenda, not even stopping at indoctrinating little kids. What ever happened to the age of innocence? |
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