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| Felipe Musco |
 Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:50 pm |
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Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 2434
Location: Florianópolis, SC, Brasil
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| Nope. Murder is the killing of a human being already born, which has a life and will of his own and that is not putting your life at risk, whom you had no need to kill as if that human being is bothering you in some way, you HAVE other ways to deal with it (otherwise, remember, the murder IS authorized, such as if your life is at stake, for instance). Abortion is the "killing" of an unborn, not yet fully formed, human-being-to-be which parasites (not in any metaphorical way, it ACTUALLY parasites) you, and that you can’t be rid off otherwise, without undergoing a SEVERE psychological and biological process which can even put yoiur life at risk, depending on what may happen during it. |
| I don't like YOU. |
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| NBarden |
| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:57 pm |
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Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 5468
Location: I don't know...
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Felipe Musco wrote: Nope. Murder is the killing of a human being already born, which has a life and will of his own and that is not putting your life at risk, whom you had no need to kill as if that human being is bothering you in some way, you HAVE other ways to deal with it (otherwise, remember, the murder IS authorized, such as if your life is at stake, for instance). Abortion is the "killing" of an unborn, not yet fully formed, human-being-to-be which parasites (not in any metaphorical way, it ACTUALLY parasites) you, and that you can’t be rid off otherwise, without undergoing a SEVERE psychological and biological process which can even put yoiur life at risk, depending on what may happen during it.
And where do you get the qualifier already born? It seems to come strictly from your bias towards legalized abortion. An unborn child DOES have a life and will of its own, although it cannot survive outside the womb, it is still its on life, and it has its own will. Drop the "already born" and I completely agree with your definition.
Second, the unborn child is a not yet fully developed human. Not human-to-be, it is already human. Nothing can change that.
Third, ABORTION is "undergoing a SEVERE psychological and biological process which can even put yoiur life at risk, depending on what may happen during it." (sic) So that argument really doesn’t hold water, as those risks are MUCH greater during an abortion. |
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| Felipe Musco |
| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:42 pm |
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Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 2434
Location: Florianópolis, SC, Brasil
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You’re making me repeat myself, but here goes:
1 - The "not yet born" part I get from the fact that murder is a crime, and abortion is not. Thus, they have differences, otherwise, they’d be treated equally. This is ONE of their differences.
2 - Yeah, bad choice of words from my behalf, being a non-native speaker does this sometimes, but agreed, yours is a better definition.
3 - Again repeating myself, but in abortion, you undergo all that OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL. You can try and argue "But she got pregnant of her own free wilL", and that’s not entirely correct. She had sexual relations of her own free will, which can NEVER means she ALSO wanted to be pregnant, unless she clearly intended that. And I mean CLEARLY. So, she had sexual relations of her own free will, and now wants to undergo THIS set of dangers (abortion) instead of THAT one (having the baby), of her own free will. This makes all the difference in the risks involved. |
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| AgentDrake |
| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:59 am |
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Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 667
Location: Halfway between eccentric and insane...
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| On point 1, The question isn’t whether they are treated the same, but whether or not they should be. Slaves = humans, but they weren’t treated that way, so it’s possible that just because Abortion is/isn’t murder doesn’t mean it will be treated that way. |
| Never kid about politicians. The more bizarre the joke, the more likely it is to come true. |
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| NBarden |
| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:52 am |
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Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 5468
Location: I don't know...
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Felipe Musco wrote: You’re making me repeat myself, but here goes:
1 - The "not yet born" part I get from the fact that murder is a crime, and abortion is not. Thus, they have differences, otherwise, they’d be treated equally. This is ONE of their differences.
Again, a legal definition. Predictable from a lawyer, but may I again emphasize that this is NOT a legal debate?
2 - Yeah, bad choice of words from my behalf, being a non-native speaker does this sometimes, but agreed, yours is a better definition.
3 - Again repeating myself, but in abortion, you undergo all that OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL. You can try and argue "But she got pregnant of her own free wilL", and that’s not entirely correct. She had sexual relations of her own free will, which can NEVER means she ALSO wanted to be pregnant, unless she clearly intended that. And I mean CLEARLY. So, she had sexual relations of her own free will, and now wants to undergo THIS set of dangers (abortion) instead of THAT one (having the baby), of her own free will. This makes all the difference in the risks involved.
Nobody’s free will includes killing a human being. Also, when she decided to have sexual relations, she knew that pregnancy was a very distinct possibility, and thus, if she didn’t want to get pregnant, she shouldn’t have had sexual relations. |
-Trade With Me
Add the popcorn smiley to your sig, help it achieve world domination.
What if the hokey pokey really IS what its all about?
As I lay in bed staring at the stars last night, I thought to myself, "where the heck is the ceiling?"
Spotlight on....Sense of Obligation. |
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| Merrick_Hale |
| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:59 am |
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Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 445
Location: Austin, Texas
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Felipe Musco wrote: 3 - Again repeating myself, but in abortion, you undergo all that OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL. You can try and argue "But she got pregnant of her own free wilL", and that’s not entirely correct. She had sexual relations of her own free will, which can NEVER means she ALSO wanted to be pregnant, unless she clearly intended that. And I mean CLEARLY. So, she had sexual relations of her own free will, and now wants to undergo THIS set of dangers (abortion) instead of THAT one (having the baby), of her own free will. This makes all the difference in the risks involved.
If a person goes base jumping and the parachute doesn’t deploy until it is too late due to their own inaction or misjudging of the descent time, should they be able to sue the manufacturer of the parachute or the owner of the structure from which they jumped?
Should a person knowingly engaging in a risky activity such as sexual intercourse knowing that pregnancy and STDs are a risk be able to have an easy out because they don’t want to take responsibility for the natural results of their activity? Even if they are using a contraceptive, those still have a high failure rate the only surefire way to avoid pregnancy is to avoid sex.
In my opinion, generally if you take the risk, you have responsibility for the outcome of your actions |
Aaron Rhinehart
Rider of Rohan (retired)
DAgent #417 (retired)
This Incognito is a smooth operator - Lem0nhead |
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| NBarden |
| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:13 pm |
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Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 5468
Location: I don't know...
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| Merrick_Hale |
| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:16 pm |
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Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 445
Location: Austin, Texas
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Sure he is alive to sue... I didn’t say he died and the implication that he is suing is that he is alive. He just suffered grievous bodily harm.
NBarden, you as a debater should know that ad-hominem attacks are not good debate style.
Your honor, I request that NBarden’s last post be stricken from the record.  |
Aaron Rhinehart
Rider of Rohan (retired)
DAgent #417 (retired)
This Incognito is a smooth operator - Lem0nhead |
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| NBarden |
| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:23 pm |
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Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 5468
Location: I don't know...
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I contend that the whereas the previous post was made in good humor, it should not be construed as an ad hominem attack but simply as pointless spam with a pitiful attempt at entertaining that is lost on anyone that has at least half a brain. Thus, in conclusion, as the post is not strictly harmful to any human being and not construed to be insultive, the post should not be stricken from the record on condition that I edit it by adding a smiley.
Furthermore, since M_H has little to no knowledge of F_M and my track record of joking about lawyers, he is not a qualified source to be appealed to on the issue and should thus be dismissed as unqualified to comment upon such an issue.
Because of all these reasons, and more which my partner can address in his next speech, I request that the argument be flowed to the affirmative and respectfully ask for an affirmative ballot at the end of today’s debate round.
Thank you, and I now stand open for cross-examination.
(Translation: F_M and I have been joking about lawyers for some time, it wasn’t meant to be insulting, was probably a lame joke and I edited it, no big deal). |
-Trade With Me
Add the popcorn smiley to your sig, help it achieve world domination.
What if the hokey pokey really IS what its all about?
As I lay in bed staring at the stars last night, I thought to myself, "where the heck is the ceiling?"
Spotlight on....Sense of Obligation. |
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| Anonymous Prodigy |
| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:33 pm |
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Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 4197
Location: United States
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NBarden wrote: ...the post should not be stricken from the record on condition that I edit it by adding a smiley.
Aha! The court finds the defendant guilty of withholding information! A wink was posted, NOT a smiley! To the gallows with thee, knave!  |
| I had to put something here. |
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