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| Celebrimbor |
 Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:32 pm |
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Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 953
Location: UNKNOWN
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Thank God for students who are not afraid to voice their
stand.
OK i just opened another can of worms, but let’s have it. I received this email forwarded from a friend of mine, I think it’s awesome.
A science professor begins his school year with a lecture to the
students, ’Let me explain the problem science has with religion.’ The
atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks
one of his new students to stand.
’You’re a Christian, aren’t you, son?’
’Yes sir,’ the student says.
’So you believe in God?’
’Absolutely.’
’Is God good?’
’Sure! God’s good.’
’Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?’
’Yes.’
’Are you good or evil?’
’The Bible says I’m evil.’
The professor grins knowingly. ’Aha! The Bible!’ He considers for a
moment. ’Here’s one for you. Let’s say there’s a sick person over here
and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?’
’Yes sir, I would.’
’So you’re good...!’
’I wouldn’t say that.’
’But why not say that? You’d help a sick and maimed person if you
could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn’t.’
The student does not answer, so the professor continues. ’He doesn’t,
does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he
prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you
answer that one?’
The student remains silent.
’No, you can’t, can you?’ the professor says. He takes a sip of water
from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.
’Let’s start again, young fella. Is God good?’
’Er...yes,’ the student says.
’Is Satan good?’
The student doesn’t hesitate on this one. ’No.’
’Then where does Satan come from?’
The student falters. ’From God’
’That’s right. God made Satan, didn’t he? Tell me, son. Is there evil
in this world?’
’Yes, sir.’
’Evil’s everywhere, isn’t it? And God did make everything, correct?’
’Yes.’
’So who created evil?’ The professor continued, ’If God created
everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to
the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.’
Again, the student has no answer. ’Is there sickness? Immorality?
Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this
world?’
The student squirms on his feet. ’Yes.’
’So who created them?’
The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his
question. ’Who created them?’ There is still no answer. Suddenly the
lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is
mesmerized. ’Tell me,’ he continues onto another student. ’Do you
believe in Jesus Christ, son?’
The student’s voice betrays him and cracks. ’Yes, professor, I do.’
The old man stops pacing. ’Science says you have five senses you use to
identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?’
’No sir. I’ve never seen Him.’
’Then tell us if you’ve ever heard your Jesus?’
’No, sir, I have not.’
’Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus?
Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for
that matter?’
’No, sir, I’m afraid I haven’t.’
’Yet you still believe in him?’
’Yes.’
’According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol,
science says your God doesn’t exist. What do you say to that, son?’
’Nothing,’ the student replies. ’I only have my faith.’
’Yes, faith,’ the professor repeats. ’And that is the problem science
has with God. There is no evidence, only faith.’
The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of
His own. ’Professor, is there such thing as heat?’
’Yes,’ the professor replies. ’There’s heat.’
’And is there such a thing as cold?’
’Yes, son, there’s cold too.’
’No sir, there isn’t.’
The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room
suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. ’You can
have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited
heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don’t have anything
called ’cold’. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no
heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as
cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458
degrees.’
’Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits
energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit
energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see,
sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We
cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat
is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of
it.’
Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom,
sounding like a hammer.
’What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?’
’Yes,’ the professor replies without hesitation. ’What is night if it
isn’t darkness?’
’You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence
of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light,
flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing
and it’s called darkness, isn’t it? That’s the meaning we use to define
the word.’
’In reality, darkness isn’t. If it were, you would be able to make
darkness darker, wouldn’t you?’
The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will
be a good semester. ’So what point are you making, young man?’
’Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to
start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.’
The professor’s face cannot hide his surprise this time. ’Flawed? Can
you explain how?’
’You are working on the premise of duality,’ the student explains. ’You
argue that there is life and then there’s death; a good God and a bad
God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something
we can measure. Sir, science can’t even explain a thought.’
’It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully
understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be
ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing.
Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.’
’Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved
from a monkey?’
’If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man,
yes, of course I do.’
’Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?’
The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes
where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.
’Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and
cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you
not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a
preacher?’
The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion
has subsided.
’To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student,
let me give you an example of what I mean.’
The student looks around the room. ’Is there anyone in the class who
has ever seen the professor’s brain?’ The class breaks out into
laughter.
’Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor’s brain, felt
the professor’s brain, touched or smelt the professor’s brain? No one
appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of
empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no
brain, with all due respect, sir.’
’So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures,
sir?’
Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his
face unreadable.
Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. ’I guess
you’ll have to take them on faith.’
’Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with
life,’ the student continues. ’Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?’
Now uncertain, the professor responds, ’Of course, there is. We see it
everyday. It is in the daily example of man’s inhumanity to man. It is
in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These
manifestations are nothing else but evil.’
To this the student replied, ’Evil does not exist sir, or at least it
does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is
just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe
the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what
happens when man does not have God’s love present in his heart. It’s
like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that
comes when there is no light.’
The professor sat down. |
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| Felipe Musco |
| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:41 pm |
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Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 2434
Location: Florianópolis, SC, Brasil
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Here we go again.  |
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| NBarden |
| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:50 pm |
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Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 5468
Location: I don't know...
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Awesome. The fact of the matter is that this isn’t all that uncommon. Students stand up to professors all the time. My professors happen top be Christian, but he’s also very liberal, and another student and I argue the point with him a lot.
Also, contrary to popular opinion, its not that difficult to leave a professor dumbfounded. Even one who’s been teaching for 50 years. I recently had the privilege of forcing my professor to concede to a double-standard on American/Iranian relations vs America/Pakistani realations. Its not that difficult. |
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| Anonymous Prodigy |
| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:07 pm |
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Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 4197
Location: United States
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I’ve heard the basic principle of this before, but have never seen it in "long-form." Good stuff, CBB.  |
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| Elessar's Socks |
| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:42 pm |
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Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 349
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You can’t use science to prove or disprove the existence of God, and I don’t see why people are so keen on doing so. (Although I noticed it’s coming from a philosophy class, so...) If that’s the point this story is making then I don’t have much to say.
If the point though is that because we can’t see apes evolving into Man before our eyes, then therefore evolution should be replaced with creationism in our textbooks, or because our understanding of gravity is not complete, therefore it is God who makes things fall... well, then I do have more to say. |
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| elf lvr |
| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:34 pm |
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Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 3065
Location: Rivendell
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I’ve often thought about the same thing and have come up with the same arguements.
I’d rather not participate in any debate here, because it all comes down to belief, and no one’s going to prove there is or isn’t a God, and we all know that.
I think this arguement with the professor story is funny. I ought to send it to all my friends.  |
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| CarpeGuitarrem |
| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:43 pm |
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Joined: 07 Apr 2006
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Location: Franciscan University of Steubenville
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Yeah, there’s some good stuff in there. Like the non-existence of darkness or cold. (Which was truly proven). I’d heard the bit about not being able to witness the professor’s brain.
As regards evolution, I don’t think it belongs in textbooks either, and neither does creationism. It’s not something that should be taught in a class where scientific fact is placed. |
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| AgentDrake |
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:24 am |
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Joined: 01 Apr 2007
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Location: Halfway between eccentric and insane...
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Though I may be on the opposite side, I gotta echo FM:
Quote: Here we go again
Actually, I’d seen both the heat/cold=good/evil, and the professor’s brain one before, though seperately. They’re both pretty funny, although the professor could pretty easily respond to both arguments there, if he had thought of the right replies.
Then, of course, the student has obvious responses to those, and it keeps on going....
Interestingly enough, people try to use "science" to disprove God.
Brilliant. Try to use observable nature to disprove something that by definition supersedes, exists outside of, and is capable of overruling nature/the universe. Aside from the fact that science, by definitions is incapable of providing absolute proof of anything. (Science told us that flies are spontaneously generated from dead matter. Heck, it’s been "scientifically" proven that Australia does not exist. Well, sort of... Don’t ask.)
At the same time, it can provide indications and evidences which, unfortunately, people on both sides flaunt around as "proof." And then one can get into a million different arguments about what is evidence of what.
IMHO, the only way to prove things on that level would be to have an in-depth analysis of every possible worldview, looking for inconsistencies and contradictions, self-disprovals, et cetera, and go through the Sherlock Holmes bit (Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains must be truth, no matter how improbable).
Which seems waaaaaaayyyyyy beyond the scope of our little CC hauntings.... |
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| NBarden |
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:59 am |
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Elessar’s Socks wrote: You can’t use science to prove or disprove the existence of God, and I don’t see why people are so keen on doing so. (Although I noticed it’s coming from a philosophy class, so...) If that’s the point this story is making then I don’t have much to say.
No, but you can use science to PROVE that you can’t disprove God scientifically.
Which is what happened.
As for proving God scientifically, you can use what’s called proof by lack of evidence. Technically, its a logical fallacy, but that’s from a deductive logic standpoint. All you can do is prove from an inductive standpoint that it is PROBABLE that God exists, which I’ll get around to later. g2g to class now. |
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Add the popcorn smiley to your sig, help it achieve world domination.
What if the hokey pokey really IS what its all about?
As I lay in bed staring at the stars last night, I thought to myself, "where the heck is the ceiling?"
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| sickofpalantirs |
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:17 pm |
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um people this will get NOWHERE...though it is kinda funny...
I will refrain from any debating |
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