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| macheteman |
 Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:15 pm |
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Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 1200
Location: The Jungle
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| yeah, i don’t like McCain, but i’d rather have him than either of the democrats. but i’d rather have obama than hilary. |
Check out my best article The Utterly Corrupt Corruption,
If at first you don't succeed...Sky-diving isn't for you.
"Combat is dangerous. It tends to interupt your breathing process."
ROLF!!! |
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| NBarden |
| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:03 am |
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Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 5468
Location: I don't know...
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Cthulhu for Prez.
Actually, I’ll probably end up supporting McCain.
Here’s the deal. Socialism is utopian. It works in Utopia, but very rarely elsewhere. And in a cutthroat American dog-eat-dog political system, anyone advocating it here is asking for dictatorship. This isn’t Europe, its America, and everything works WAY different here.
That being said, I have some more crucial concerns with Obama and Clinton.
1). Pro-choice.
2). Pro-gay marriage.
3). Pro-mandatory public education (and all the high on dope New Age hug-a-tree junk that comes with it).
4). Anti-gun.
After those issues, I begin looking at other issues. But if a candidate can’t pass those tests, then I don’t even consider them.
But, since I detest absolutely Obama and Clinton, I’m happy to watch them rip each other apart completely and utterly destroy all chances of winning, even with the year in the Dems favor. Their constant struggle will probably snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. |
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| MR. Lurtzy |
| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:06 am |
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Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 423
Location: Living with the Governator
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| The problem with anti-gun is that many criminals will still get guns through the black market and such. Taking away peoples’ protection is about the most dangerous thing possible. If burglars know that your house has gun, will they rob it over robbing somebody who they know doesn’t have one? It’s logic, you’ve gotta fight fire with fire here. |
'On and on old war shall go,
Without respite my blood will flow
O’er your eyes ‘til they cannot see
The impossibility of victory.'
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| NBarden |
| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:48 pm |
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Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 5468
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| sickofpalantirs |
| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:49 pm |
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 7750
Location: somwhere, over the rainbow way up high. There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby.
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yes but the thing is, how often does someone who wants to rob a house or kill someone have say, blackmarket connections. I have no idea how I would find a gun illegally.
I think gun control does need to be strengthened somewhat responsible citizens with little or no criminal record and that can pass a psychiatric evaluation really should be able to have guns but others...
Mr. L, how the tech would they know whether you had a gun or not? |
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| macheteman |
| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:15 pm |
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Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 1200
Location: The Jungle
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sickofpalantirs wrote: I have no idea how I would find a gun illegally.
most people do. if you have some money, you can easily obtain guns in any redneck area. like where I live... and there are a ton of other places. |
Check out my best article The Utterly Corrupt Corruption,
If at first you don't succeed...Sky-diving isn't for you.
"Combat is dangerous. It tends to interupt your breathing process."
ROLF!!! |
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| AgentDrake |
| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:52 pm |
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Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 667
Location: Halfway between eccentric and insane...
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Well, I dunno about "most" people, but yeah, it shouldn’t be too hard to get a hold of a gun illegally if you really wanted to. (Not that I’ve ever tried, or am advocating it mind you.) I expect that using forged ID documents in a legal market would probably be the easiest way. Heck, we’ve got a about 250k people getting into the US illegally every year on forged documents as it is.
Not that that’s relevant to the point; if you outlaw guns, then the market would only exist illegally, and so much for the above method. But I expect it probably still wouldn’t be too hard. |
| Never kid about politicians. The more bizarre the joke, the more likely it is to come true. |
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| gil-estel |
| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:59 pm |
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Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Posts: 545
Location: Groningen, the Netherlands
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Well, in that case, should drugs be legal?....man! You guys sometimes seem to have issues with getting things straigth! If you’re for keeping guns, at least try to have reasonable arguments. I understand that guns is some kind of cultural thing...well, I don’t want to get into this again.
Stating socialism is utopian is cool, I know Marx was an utopian, at least on the last part. The first part, about the conflict between capital and labor is just plain obvious. But at least be honest, because if you look at the founding moments of the states (Washington acting like Cincinatus), I think the US is built on utopian ideas...and these ideas are lived after today...so don’t blame others of being utopian...... |
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| AgentDrake |
| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:35 pm |
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Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 667
Location: Halfway between eccentric and insane...
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Drugs and guns aren’t comparable like that, but yeah, I know my argument’s entirely irrelevant to the main point. Was just trying to tie up a potential loose end, there. 
Just in case someone wants to argue the point:
1. Drugs are legal... in certain situations. Medical marijuana, no? Guns are restricted in certain situations.
Next few points ignore the rare exceptions like medical marijuana
2. Owning drugs doesn’t exactly have any sort of deterrent effect on criminal activity. (if you own drugs, that’s not going to protect you from a maniac with drugs. If you own a gun, that can help protect you from a maniac with a gun.)
3. As commonly used, drugs aren’t a tool for; guns are. Hunting, for example; responsible hunting allows gathering food. Protection.
4. Weapons can be used for sport, when used by responsible people who have a clue what they’re doing. Fencing involves stabbing people with swords. Go down to the shooting range to blast a few clay pigeons out of the sky. Nothing wrong with that, assuming you’re not being irresponsible.
As for the US being utopian:
The US is based on utopian ideals not on utopia. That is, the US is (theoretically) working towards utopia, constantly trying to become better than it is, in an open-ended system; we’ll never achieve utopia, but the harder we work at it, the better we can become as a nation. Theoretically, at any rate. Obviously, peoples’ ideas of which way to utopia varies wildly.... So the US is ’utopian’ in that we are striving to constantly move closer to utopia, not because we necessarily believe that it can be achieved, and by all means certainly don’t believe that it’s already been achieved.
Foundational Socialism (socialism as the foundational metasystem of society,) requires that the utopian ideal already be achieved in order for it to function properly. Hence it is ’utopian’ in that it presupposes utopian status in places where such does not exist.
...Oh, yeah. And I’m supporting a new candidate:
Lord Vader for President! |
| Never kid about politicians. The more bizarre the joke, the more likely it is to come true. |
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| MR. Lurtzy |
| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:21 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 423
Location: Living with the Governator
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sickofpalantirs wrote: yes but the thing is, how often does someone who wants to rob a house or kill someone have say, blackmarket connections. I have no idea how I would find a gun illegally.
I think gun control does need to be strengthened somewhat responsible citizens with little or no criminal record and that can pass a psychiatric evaluation really should be able to have guns but others...
Mr. L, how the tech would they know whether you had a gun or not?
First off, it is quite easy to get guns illegally. If guns were outlawed, burglars and such (not biblo) would be the only ones left with guns. This would give them a huge advantage and prolly raise their confidence level, making them want to rob more, kill more, etc...
Mr. SOP, most [smart] criminals look at the neighborhood that they are planning to rob. They find out stuff about it like which houses have security and such. If you live in a neighborhood that is notorious for shooting burglars, chances are that the "bad boys" will skip right over you. |
'On and on old war shall go,
Without respite my blood will flow
O’er your eyes ‘til they cannot see
The impossibility of victory.'
MR. Lurtzy's Have/Wants |
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