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| josiah_of_rohan |
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:16 am |
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Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 723
Location: Indianapolis,Indiana
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sickofpalantirs wrote: yes but the thing is, how often does someone who wants to rob a house or kill someone have say, blackmarket connections. I have no idea how I would find a gun illegally.
I think gun control does need to be strengthened somewhat responsible citizens with little or no criminal record and that can pass a psychiatric evaluation really should be able to have guns but others...
Mr. L, how the tech would they know whether you had a gun or not?
give me a SCHOOL shop class. 20 bucks in materials, a can of either and 1 hour, and i can MAKE a muzzel loading D cell battery cannon that WILL kill any person that is shot with it...
so if a Chimney Sweep can make a gun capable of killing somone... dont you think gang members can get together and start production of illigal firearms?
do you own any guns?
i would guess not... you have to jump through some hoops to be able to buy one and then you would have made a statement about needing to make it harder to get a gun ... and any person with a criminal record cannot buy them...
there are background checks. criminal record checks. checks into family life. they look at your tickets.
everything they can think of
AgentDrake wrote: Turin06 wrote: I’m English but I lived in America all through my early teens and have American relatives. Anyway I have found the American election so far to be extremely interesting and wondered what you Americans thought about certain aspects.
- John McCain, He is now the Republican nominee. What do you think of him? Personally I am quite a centrailist. My christianity compells me towards a socialist desire to help the poor and others but my christianity also means that I am conservative when it comes to my morals and standards. I quite like him as he seems reasonably liberal for a conservative.
McCain... IMHO he’s sounding better all the time, that’s for sure. Never did really like him, though some of the stuff that most conservatives are mad at him about I don’t quite figure why (probably because I wasn’t paying attention at the time). Wish Sen. Brownback (R-Kansas) had stayed in, and not just because I’m from Kansas, either....
-Obama, Clinton. What do you guys think of them? Who will win out? Could the loser run as viceP for the other? Even if you areRepublican which would you pick for pres if you had to have one of them?
They’re not going to be eachother’s VP. Despite all the happy-faces, I’m pretty sure they hate eachother.
I was expecting Obama to pull through, but now that someone in the media besides Hannity (who was pounding on this for months) has started talking about Obama’s preacher, he may take a huge hit. Don’t know what, if any, effect his speech will have yet.
Hillary... *shudder*
-The issues. Healthcare? The War? Illegal imigrants?
Healthcare... The last thing we want is to screw up healthcare even more. One of the biggest things we can do to improve things, including cost, is to kick the AMA out of it’s position of supreme arbiter of the Medical Profession with government power. Take away the gov’t power, because the AMA is not part of the government. They’re a dictatorial union which has monopolized healthcare and is actively seeking to control every aspect of the health market, including putting high-quality doctors out of business, because they hurt the business of lower-quality doctors with ties in the upper echelons of AMA.
The War: Cheez... half the idiots complaining about the war don’t comprehend the nature of this war. We’re not fighting an enemy with a "nerve center" there’s no single objective that we can take, no leader to capture. no general to force surrender on. We’re fighting a cellular, disunited enemy. Take out twenty terrorist cells, and none of the others even bat an eye. Their ties to the others are extremely limited. How can we speed it up? Take out more cells faster. How? More troops to take on more cells at once. Oh, wait.... I thought a surge wasn’t supposed to work? (it did work) On the other hand, we are never going to wipe out terrorism. That’s fighting an idea. You can’t destroy an idea. You can hide it, suppress it, but you cannot destroy it. Even if we were to take out every terrorist in the world, more would eventually show up.
As for being in Iraq,
1. We’re following UN mandate. Hussein defied the UN by refusing UN inspection of various facilities, and the UN ordered him to let them in or be invaded. He didn’t. The UN never sent it’s little blue-helmeted wanna-be soldiers, we went. Along with most of the rest of NATO.
2. There were weapons. The media throws a fit because "we have found no weapons." No, we didn’t find the weapons themselves, but we found the facilities, records of wmd production, paperwork for rushing the wmds out of Iraq into another country-- Syria, I think.
3. If we were after the oil, we’d have gotten every scrap of it a long time ago. In fact, we’ve probably spent more money on the war that we would’ve gotten from the oil in the first place.
Half of our illegal immigration problem is that no-one in Washington actually has a clue what our current policy is, let alone any interest in solving something that’s ripe for political exploitation. I’ve been studying this for Debate, and I’ve found contradictory statements from the same gov’t departments issued on the same day, neither of which was released as corrections to the other; they were just issued without any regard to the fact that they just said the exact opposite.My position: Immigration is a wonderful thing. Illegal immigration is not, primarily because we have no control over who gets in-- Juan the honest Mexican who just wants to feed his family, and is sometimes even willing to go back to Mexico once he’s worked enough to support his family, as opposed to bringing them here, or Tariq al-Terrorist, who wanders in from Mexico or Canada. We need to expand legal immigration substantially, especially employment-based immigration, which is currently limited to 5k permanent unskilled and 66k temporary skilled /unskilled people per year... when we need an estimated 400-500k employment-based immigrants just to keep the economy going.
-Torture. I have made a special section for this issue as it has been burning at me ever since Bush’s veto. What is your oppinion on the use of torture? Personally I believe it goes against everything America should be. It’s time America decided quite how far it’s willing to go down a dark path in the name of security and this could be the decisive issue.
The US should not torture. (Heck, no one should.) However rough interrogation.... that’s different. Even very rough interrogation. But somewhere, there’s a fuzzy line between beating the snot out of someone to try to save lives, and torturing someone. Better to use rough interrogation, but not so rough as to approach the line too closely. Waterboarding... I don’t know much about it, but from what I understand, it would be close to the line, but not too close. Of course, then one has to remember that there’s different pain thresholds. One person’s mild beating might be another’s torture, simply because the one can handle much more pain than the other.
A distressingly unclear and difficult point. I expect that there’s no real "brightline" that can be drawn here.
for you |
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| sickofpalantirs |
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:23 am |
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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Location: somwhere, over the rainbow way up high. There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby.
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josiah_of_rohan wrote: sickofpalantirs wrote: yes but the thing is, how often does someone who wants to rob a house or kill someone have say, blackmarket connections. I have no idea how I would find a gun illegally.
I think gun control does need to be strengthened somewhat responsible citizens with little or no criminal record and that can pass a psychiatric evaluation really should be able to have guns but others...
Mr. L, how the tech would they know whether you had a gun or not?
give me a SCHOOL shop class. 20 bucks in materials, a can of either and 1 hour, and i can MAKE a muzzel loading D cell battery cannon that WILL kill any person that is shot with it...
Oooo do you have pictures? that sounds interesting...I want one  |
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| gil-estel |
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:47 pm |
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Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Posts: 545
Location: Groningen, the Netherlands
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I kinda dislike the fact that people tend to debate from their own situation, not open to other input. The main argument seems to be the defending one. And I have to disagree with that. We in the Netherlands don’t feel unsafe due to lack of guns. As a mather of fact, per 100.000 inhabitants, the number of murders are way higher in America, according to this study: Home office.
International comparisons of Criminal Justice Statistics. In: Criminal statistics England and Wales, 1997: Statistics relating to crime and criminal proceedings for the year 1997. London: Stationery Office, 1998, pp. 210-222.
Other studies also show us a way higher homicide number in the US then in Europe. http://www.csdp.org/research/hosb1203.pdf.....
For me this turn out that more and easier to obtain weapons isn’t the solution, it is imho the cause of the problem. Even your lawsystem, which is tougher when it comes to punishment then our, doesn’t scare people from being brutal. I think that a more liberal and therefor a more egocentric system is the cause of violence. But again, that is my opinion and I’m willing to support my statements with more arguments, but for now I let it be! |
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| macheteman |
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:29 pm |
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Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 1200
Location: The Jungle
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gil-estel wrote: Other studies also show us a way higher homicide number in the US then in Europe.
you are completely right. the USA has a homicide rate way over countries with gun control.
the difference is in the fact that if guns were outlawed now, that already high homicide rate would go up.
there are many factors that contribute to that. here are 2:
1. tradition
there is such a long tradition of guns that people won’t give them up.
2. constitution
even if the 2nd amendment doesn’t give citizens the rights to guns, many people perceive it that way (i’m one of them). and many would fight before letting their guns go. (bringing the death rate up even more.)
the constitution also protects people from unwarranted search and seizure of property, thus, the government couldn’t enforce it’s own laws. to get a warrant to search and seize, (based on the 3rd amendment) they would need:
-a probable cause (this prevents them from searching anywhere unless it is probable that there are guns there)
-support from an oath or affirmation (this further prevents the search of a place because they need so much evidence)
-and they have to particularly describe the place to be searched and the things to be seized (this keeps them from ever finding the guns owned by the tons of hillbillies and rednecks and drifters who don’t have a "particular place")
and if they did start searching and seizing peoples stuff, that would be pulling the proverbial trigger, and TONS of people will start to oppose the government for overstepping its boundaries. and keeping the government in check (protecting citizens from their government) is the very reason citizens should have guns. |
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| MR. Lurtzy |
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:23 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 423
Location: Living with the Governator
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gil-estel wrote:
Other studies also show us a way higher homicide number in the US then in Europe. http://www.csdp.org/research/hosb1203.pdf.....
For me this turn out that more and easier to obtain weapons isn’t the solution, it is imho the cause of the problem. Even your lawsystem, which is tougher when it comes to punishment then our, doesn’t scare people from being brutal. I think that a more liberal and therefor a more egocentric system is the cause of violence. But again, that is my opinion and I’m willing to support my statements with more arguments, but for now I let it be!
Not everybody in the US is a citizen. Lots of illegals get guns and do a thing I like to call "murder". Anyway, there are way more people in the US than in the Netherlands, and it’s not the same to compare them. The US has way more people (more crowded cities and such) and this may be a cause of such high numbers of killings. Gil-estel, have you looked at how many people have been saved, just because they carry a gun? You’ve gotta look at it both ways because guns don’t just kill. |
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| josiah_of_rohan |
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:59 pm |
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Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 723
Location: Indianapolis,Indiana
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sop-
i dont have my potato cannon anymore (my dad needed the pipes for pluming lol)
but give me a pm and i can give you the basic ideas of how its made (check your local laws. it may be an illegal firearm in you area)
as for the murder rate in other countries. you can compare that to america.
its different people with different laws in a very different culture...
we have alot more people in general in america who wont follow the law because there piers have decided its more fun to rebel against "the man"
so we have a population of people who dont care about the law.
taking all guns away wont remove those people... itll just cause them to find new ways to kill
there is a city in somewhere in america (ill get more information on it later and post again) that had one of the lowest murder rates in the country. the government over that city decided to remove the guns to try to drop that murder rate a little further... it did the exact opposite, that city is now in the top ten murder capitols of the country
(again ill get more information on it later) |
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| Shieldmaiden |
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:13 am |
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Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 389
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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I will not get involved in this debate! I must resist!
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| lem0nhead |
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:36 am |
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Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 2981
Location: Blood Island
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Congrats SM. Im very pleased for you!
You gained +5 on willpower and saved 10 minutes of your life from being wasted needlessly!
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| sickofpalantirs |
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:32 am |
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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Location: somwhere, over the rainbow way up high. There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby.
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| Snazzy SM. oh so its just like a potato gun JOR? I have a friend who makes those... |
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| AgentDrake |
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:59 am |
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Joined: 01 Apr 2007
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Location: Halfway between eccentric and insane...
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Ooookayyyy.....
Change of topic.
So... any Americans here going to vote for Nader?  |
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