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| MR. Lurtzy |
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:35 am |
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Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 423
Location: Living with the Governator
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| The fact is, there has not been any terrorist attacks on US soil since we went into Iraq. It has made our country a lot safer. |
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| lem0nhead |
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:56 am |
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Joined: 02 Apr 2007
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Location: Blood Island
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Celebrimbor wrote: There are way too many sides to this argument. Some believe war is completely wrong, some think that the American Government is too pushy/nosy, and others are being fed by propaganda pushed by the media, for example the issues involving a soldier "injustly" killing an Iraqi civilian.
I agree completely.
We did what we could to drive out and get rid of Saddam and slow down terrorism (to a degree).
I would like to know on what basis you are stating this? Because there hasnt been another 9/11?? Its made no difference to terrorism at all except feed the fires of the terrorists and get em more pee’d off with the west.
MR. Lurtzy wrote: The fact is, there has not been any terrorist attacks on US soil since we went into Iraq. It has made our country a lot safer.
Are you kidding me? How naive are you ML? There is really high security yes but will that stop 90% of the population of the middle east hurting the west again if they really want to? Nope. It could happen any day. This sort of attitude may be exactly what they what you to think. Ooo not had an attack in ages, we’re safe, everyone relax. Then BOOM, the midden hits the fan again when you least expect it. What you actually did by invading Iraq was kick over an ant hill that wasnt even bothering you. The threat was coming from Afghanistan and possibly Iran and some others. Iraq was more of a general problem not a direct threat. You irritated a nation that previously only "disliked" you and now hates you enough to resist yours (and our) forces by rebelling against them every single day costing you lives you didnt need to waste.
There werent any attacks before 9/11, so what? You cant possibly say its done that. There are so many things to refute that with, I feel I can’t fight such ignorance. |
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| MR. Lurtzy |
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:47 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2007
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Location: Living with the Governator
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I am not saying to relax, I am saying that this "war" with Iraq HAS done a whole lot to keep us way more safe.
lem0nhead wrote: There werent any attacks before 9/11, so what? You cant possibly say its done that. There are so many things to refute that with, I feel I can’t fight such ignorance.
There have been plenty of terrorist attacks in the US before 911, try to watch (or read) the news every now and then, it doesn’t hurt. But I guess we "ignorant" people don’t know what the hell we’re talking about.  |
'On and on old war shall go,
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O’er your eyes ‘til they cannot see
The impossibility of victory.'
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| sickofpalantirs |
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:05 pm |
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Location: somwhere, over the rainbow way up high. There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby.
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language
anyway Mr. Lurtyz is somewhat right.;..but not many, if any of them were foreign attacks. most just people who were kind of wacked doing something without anyway else helping them. |
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| MR. Lurtzy |
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:25 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2007
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| 911, world trade center bombing, USS cole, US african embassy, iranian embassy, Lebanon embassy, Saudi Arabian US headquarters... the list goes on. These were terrorist attacks on US soil or Us embassies. I’m sure these are foreign attacks on the US. |
'On and on old war shall go,
Without respite my blood will flow
O’er your eyes ‘til they cannot see
The impossibility of victory.'
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| Shieldmaiden |
Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:34 am |
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Joined: 07 May 2007
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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I’m sorry, I cannot stay silent on this any more. I agree with Lem0n, NK and Turin.
If you think that the war in Iraq has made America safe, then you need to open your eyes. If anything has kept America "safe" (for want of a better term), it has been the increased security (along with a huge amount of luck), NOT the war in Iraq!
The war in Iraq has made terrorism worse, much worse, not better. There weren’t any terrorists coming out of Iraq before the war! How many Iraqis participated in 9/11? None, zero, zip. Iraq had no ties with any terrorist groups, including al-Qaida. Saddam Hussein would not tolerate the competition. Don’t even try to say that there were WoMD because none were found (and all of this bull about plans for WoMD, or that there were the materials there to make them, well then, you will have to invade many countries on that basis). When the allies went in (many believing the myriad lies told by the Bush administration) and removed Hussein, Iraq became open. The terrorists are flooding in from Iran and Afghanistan. What’s more, their favourite targets (American soldiers) are there. American soldiers are dying, and a country that was no threat at all has now become a very big threat.
I love America, and that’s why it makes me sick to see my fellow Americans being duped by the government and the media into believing that we are the "good guys" who rush in and save the day, then everyone cheers. Like others here have said, Americans often do rush in - then muck things up. Then the American government and media tell the public that we are doing good things over there. What we’re actually doing is making a lot more enemies.
What’s sad is, many Americans can’t understand why the US has so many enemies in the world. They want to continue to stick their heads in the sand and insist that they are doing good things with this war (and others).
It does my heart good when I see that there are some Americans who see things for what they really are. |
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| MR. Lurtzy |
Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:19 am |
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Shieldmaiden wrote: I’m sorry, I cannot stay silent on this any more. I agree with Lem0n, NK and Turin.
If you think that the war in Iraq has made America safe, then you need to open your eyes. If anything has kept America "safe" (for want of a better term), it has been the increased security (along with a huge amount of luck), NOT the war in Iraq!
So it’s just luck then that right after we go into Iraq, all the terrorist attacks stop in the US?
The war in Iraq has made terrorism worse, much worse, not better. There weren’t any terrorists coming out of Iraq before the war! How many Iraqis participated in 9/11? None, zero, zip. Iraq had no ties with any terrorist groups, including al-Qaida. Saddam Hussein would not tolerate the competition. Don’t even try to say that there were WoMD because none were found (and all of this bull about plans for WoMD, or that there were the materials there to make them, well then, you will have to invade many countries on that basis). When the allies went in (many believing the myriad lies told by the Bush administration) and removed Hussein, Iraq became open. The terrorists are flooding in from Iran and Afghanistan. What’s more, their favourite targets (American soldiers) are there. American soldiers are dying, and a country that was no threat at all has now become a very big threat.
When we went into Iraq, we did not secure the borders first. Many, many convoys of Hussains "stuff" were taken out before we had a chance to stop them. Guess what was in those trucks? WMDs. Do not try to argue on whether he did have them or not, it’s pointless. I think I’m more qualified to argue about that when I have a source who was in the army for 20 years, took many extensive classes on terrorism (how to counter, how to think like them, etc...), has been all over the world, and has seen first-hand some stuff about this that I am not legally allowed to release. However, I can say that Iran and the Phillipines and prolly even Sudan and Afganistan took in the WMDs when we invaded. Hussain did have WMDs and he was planning on using them.
I love America, and that’s why it makes me sick to see my fellow Americans being duped by the government and the media into believing that we are the "good guys" who rush in and save the day, then everyone cheers. Like others here have said, Americans often do rush in - then muck things up. Then the American government and media tell the public that we are doing good things over there. What we’re actually doing is making a lot more enemies.
What’s sad is, many Americans can’t understand why the US has so many enemies in the world. They want to continue to stick their heads in the sand and insist that they are doing good things with this war (and others).
It does my heart good when I see that there are some Americans who see things for what they really are.
Thank you, I do know that I see things for what they really are. That’s all for now... can’t really type stuff functionally so late at night. |
'On and on old war shall go,
Without respite my blood will flow
O’er your eyes ‘til they cannot see
The impossibility of victory.'
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| man_flesh |
Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:53 am |
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Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 18
Location: MA
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| All I have to say is I can’t wait for 01/20/09. Can’t wait for that train wreck of a president to leave office. |
| What is it? What do you smell? |
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| sickofpalantirs |
Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:24 am |
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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Location: somwhere, over the rainbow way up high. There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby.
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well...even I, a quite conservative republican (technically speaking, I am a tad young...) have to agree with you. Bush has done good things, but in the end he made mistakes...and congress did too. Bob’s experience in congress has helped me realize how little actual power the president has...
anyway back on topic, I think the majority of us can agree that we shouldn’t have gone in, but we did. We all have the benefit of hindsight, Bush didn’t. We really won’t get anywhere by debating whether we should’ve gone in or not. What we NEED to debate is what we should do now...
and I think we should stay.
now before you all take my head off let me give a few comments.
Its like vietnam, we probably shouldn’t have gone in, but we owed to them to stay. We’ve ruined a lot, but we have made progress...the problem is we are running out of troops to send, and as AD so eloquently put it in another thread, troops are what we need to take out the terrorist cells which are what we need to take out.
So I do hope that whoever gets elected doesn’t immediately pull out...I fell whether we stay or leave, the international community will hate us for what we did...
Well I have basically come full circle, so thats my for now |
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| man_flesh |
Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:17 am |
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Joined: 06 Aug 2007
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Location: MA
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| I am not sure we should pull out right away either. The whole thing is a mess. A true dilemma. Either way there will be major repercussions for whatever the next president decides to do. |
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