Another Terrible As the Dawn Question

[ket_the_jet]

At Steward's Tomb*, you cannot prevent Terrible As the Dawn, right?
-wtk

[MuadDib85]

I would say you can prevent it still.

steward's tomb stops healing not wounds being placed.

[ket_the_jet]

First sentence. Wounds cannot be prevented or healed.
-wtk

[MuadDib85]

Sorry was getting confused with the text of treacherous little toad and steward's tomb

Well the answer to your question is quite obvious then?

[MuadDib85]

Does the placing of the tokens for the wounds of TATD happen before or after the free peoples player decides to discard 2 elves?

If the tokens are placed as soon as the event is played.. then steward's tomb should work, but if the free peoples player decides to discard then are there ever any tokens placed to begin with?

[MuadDib85]

Either way steward's tomb should stop the free peoples player of even having an option to disard.

[ket_the_jet]

Spot a minion to wound Galadriel 3 times. The Free Peoples player may...prevent this.

Wounds cannot be prevented or healed.

I just wanted to confirm.
-wtk

[RedGoldStag]

I think a case can be made that Steward's Tomb does not keep you from being able to discard 2 Elves instead of having Galadriel take the wounds. If you discard 2 Elves, you're doing so to prevent the effect of Terrible as the Dawn -- while this effect would involve the placement of wounds, you're not really preventing wounds, per se. To me, this is different than something like Intimidate, where the thing being prevented is the wound itself.

I guess it comes down to how "prevent this" in the text of Terrible as the Dawn is meant to be understood. To me, it's implicit that it's to be read as "prevent this effect" rather than "prevent these wounds" -- granted, we're getting into some pretty fine semantics here, but that sort of comes with the territory. Not as clear cut as a lot of rulings, but I think that's probably the right way to view it.

[TheJord]

I'm going to have to say, if you are attempting to prevent wounds, by any means, then Stewards Tomb will prevent it from happening. Terrible as the Dawn will wound Galadriel.

[Thranduil]

Ditto TheJord!

Thranduil

[lem0nhead]

Ditto TheThran!

[Kralik]

Ditto RedGoldStag!
That is, the semantics could be interpreted creatively.

But, on the other hand, it would probably be best to go with the simplest interpretation. Prevent vs. cannot be prevented... seems clear that she dies.

[Alazzar]

I don't know, I was actually thinkin' what RedGoldStag said before I even read his post.  It's possible that the sequence could go like this:

1.  Terrible as the Dawn is played
2.  Free Peoples player has the option to prevent the effect of the card being played.
3.  If Free Peoples player prevents, Galadriel is fine, and the sequence ends here.  If not, go to step 4.

4.  Free Peoples player chooses not to prevent the effect of the card.  Galadriel wounded.
5.  Free Peoples player has option to respond to wounds being placed, potentially preventing them.

I'd think that Steward's Tomb would only disallow step 5 of the sequence.

But, realistically, I could see it going either way.  =P

[ket_the_jet]

But now you are opening up a serious can of worms. I think that Steward's Tomb is an "Effect" that is just a general aura around that site. Free Peoples and Shadow cannot prevent wounds, or take any necessary steps to prevent wounds.
-wtk

[Elessar's Socks]

I think it does imply "prevent this ["effect"]", but that it's also functionally equivalent to "prevent [transcribe effect here]". Saves game text space, and IMO if there was an important difference, the rulebook would have emphasized it. Here's an example of how the rulebook describes the prevention:

If something happens to prevent one effect which in turn would have prevented a second effect, the second effect is performed.
Morgul Destroyer is played.("When you play this minion, you may spot a Nazgûl to add 2 threats. The Free Peoples player may wound the Ring-bearer to prevent this.") The Free Peoples player wounds the Ring-bearer to prevent the threats from being added. The Free Peoples player then discards Sapling of the White Tree. ("Response: If a ? Man is about to take a wound, discard this artifact to prevent that.") Because Sapling has prevented the effect (a wound) that would have prevented Morgul Destroyer's effect, the threats are now added.

The bolded part would have been a good place to split hairs, but it sounds to me like the threats are directly being prevented.