Pelennor Prairie

[hrcho]

Can Gimli, Feared Axeman prevent condition discarding if the source of discard is Pelennor Prairie?

My guess is he can't, because the Free Peoples player discards the condition even if Shadow Player made him and even if he could in that case, the source of discard is a site which is not a shadow card, so it's not really shadow player that discards.

In any case, it's not Gimli's opponent who discards the condition.

[Faelach]

Gimli's text CAN prevent the discarding.  His text says "about to be discarded by an opponent".  The ability on the site is a Shadow action, so your opponent is the one doing the discarding (using the ability on the site as his own).  In that case, Gimli can prevent it.  Make sense?

[jdizzy001]

yep. so long as the source of the discard is your opponent, gimli can block it

[Thranduil]

I'm almost certain that he can't. "By an opponent" means "by an opponent's Shadow card". Because the source of the ability is the site, it does not fall in this category.

Thranduil

[TheJord]

I think it is worded in such a way so as to prevent you discarding something like Loyalty Unshaken, but be able to use the ability over and over again.

[Elgar]

No, because it is the Free peoples player who is discarding the condition.
Quote from the prarie: "...the Free peoples player discard one of his or her conditions."

[TheJord]

The source of a discard is always the card doing the discard.

[legolas3333]

a similar question, A fools hope and deceit

[Thranduil]

The source of a discard is always the card doing the discard.

Rather the source of anything is always the card on which it is printed. For example, Trapped and Alone does nothing against Dagger Strike because the source of the damage bonus is the event not the possession.

I think you can also use Deceit to save each of your conditions in turn. But this is slightly different as it's a wrath-type effect and so there may be other rules going on here (I don't know whether you would have to keep removing until there are only 2 conditions remaining).

Thranduil

[Elessar's Socks]

I'm almost certain that he can't. "By an opponent" means "by an opponent's Shadow card". Because the source of the ability is the site, it does not fall in this category.

What would be your rationale for Siege Engine not working against BRC?

[hrcho]

If Siege Engine works against BRC it doesn't mean that Gimli, FA will work against Pelennor Prairie.
In the Siege Engine case, BRC is the source of discard and that is a Free Peoples card; in Pelennor Prairie case, however, the source of discard is a site, which is neutral.

[Thranduil]

I'm almost certain that he can't. "By an opponent" means "by an opponent's Shadow card". Because the source of the ability is the site, it does not fall in this category.

What would be your rationale for Siege Engine not working against BRC?

Are you saying there's a known ruling that makes Siege Engine not work against BRC? In which case, my answer is totally wrong!

Thranduil

[hrcho]

I have come to a conclusion, although I am still open to being proved wrong.

Case 1: Siege Engine vs. BRC

BRC is a Free Peoples card -> Free Peoples player is doing the discarding -> Free Peoples player is Shadow Players opponent  -> Siege Engine prevents machine discarding by an opponent -> Siege Engine will indeed work against BRC

Case 2: Gimli, FA vs. Pelennor Prairie

Pelennor Prairie is a site -> sites are nor Shadow nor Free Peoples cards -> sites are not Free Peoples players opponent -> Gimli, FA prevents condition discarding by an opponent -> Gimli, FA cannot prevent condition discarding by a site.

So even though it's the shadow player using the site's text, the source of discard is still that site and not a Shadow card.

[Elessar's Socks]

Are you saying there's a known ruling that makes Siege Engine not work against BRC?

This might look familiar:

Siege Engine can't prevent a Shadow player from discarding cards.
Siege Engine can't prevent the effect of Blood Runs Chill. Even though Blood Runs Chill is a Free Peoples card, it makes a Shadow player discard.

Same reasoning seems to imply Feared Axeman won't work against Pelennor Prairie, since it makes the Free Peoples player discard.

[Elgar]

Are you saying there's a known ruling that makes Siege Engine not work against BRC?

This might look familiar:

Siege Engine can't prevent a Shadow player from discarding cards.
Siege Engine can't prevent the effect of Blood Runs Chill. Even though Blood Runs Chill is a Free Peoples card, it makes a Shadow player discard.

Same reasoning seems to imply Feared Axeman won't work against Pelennor Prairie, since it makes the Free Peoples player discard.

Exactly.

 BRC is a free peoples card that makes the shadow player discard conditions.  Seige engine references the player, so it doesn't work against BRC.

If Seige engine instead said "If one or more machines are about to be discarded by a Free peoples card, discard this condition to prevent that. "  it would work against BRC.

Using the same logic, the prarie is causing the free peoples to discard so Gimli's text cant stop it because it is the FP and not an opponent discarding the condition.