Flaw in Star Wars Plot (Episodes 4, 5, and 6 only)

[Elf_Lvr]

No, no, no. "People weren't complaining when the Rebels took over" is not ever mentioned in the films.

Again, look directly at the films, nothing else.

And the Rebel Alliance wasn't a political party. It was a terrorist cell.
-wtk

Looking at the films and nothing else, I think both Death Stars were built by military personnel, evidenced by that scene in which one Lieutenant (whose name I can't even pretend to remember) complains to Vader that he needs more men if he is to complete the Death Star on time. Considering how the only "men" we ever see (based on the movies alone) on the Death Star are military personnel, it follows that the men he asks for, the men constructing the Death Star, are military personnel as well. I mean, he could be talking about outside labor, but there's never any mention of it.

I also don't think people buy stock in a planet-destroying weapon. Just not sure if anyone would pick up on that investment.

If your point is that "Freedom Fighters" equal "Terrorists," well, I actually might be inclined to agree with you in a lot of cases. But in those cases "terrorists" aren't always working for "evil." One could argue that the American Revolution was made up of terrorists.

Oh, and the Rebellion wasn't a political party, but in an Empire, I don't think political parties exist or are even allowed.

Sure, the Alliance did kill millions of people, but the majority of those were military. Alderaan was not a military target. The Death Star was. The Empire was using Alderaan as blackmail against Leia.

It's true we don't see the oppression of the Empire in the films, but it was considered to be a given. The audience was expected to know that the Empire was oppressive. The movie wasn't meant to deal with the question of whether or not "Rebels" are always the good guys, therefore the movie didn't address it.

The books and other films are canon because Lucas said they were. Tolkien never said card games or other things were canon and therefore LotR doesn't apply to this logic.

Another oppressive feat we do see in the films is the murder of Luke's Aunt and Uncle, again hardly military or rebellious. True, they were probably withholding information from the Empire, but that hardly warrants -death-.

[Gil-Estel]

Again, look directly at the films, nothing else.

-wtk

Than don't bring The Technical Book of Science Fiction Films in the debate

[Pepi]

Didn't use the correct words. There were two FORCES, not parties struggling for the dominance. I told you, that SW mirrored world war 2. The empire was portrayed as some nazi uniformed occupier, and the rebels were like the allied force fighting against it. It's just what Gil-estel said...If u're an evil doer, you don't see your deeds as evil. But I guess that since u're ruling out all SW but the original strategy, u might not know, that palpatin got to power with a help from a similar terrorist cell, as the rebellion. It was called confederacy of independent systems. Who said that revolutions aren't bloody? Not me. They take casualties on each side.
In any case...As far as star wars goes, if there'd be Lucas saying empire, and its leaders are the antagonists, and god claiming different. I'd go with the Lucas' option.

[MR. Lurtzy]

It's true we don't see the oppression of the Empire in the films, but it was considered to be a given. The audience was expected to know that the Empire was oppressive. The movie wasn't meant to deal with the question of whether or not "Rebels" are always the good guys, therefore the movie didn't address it. 

I know you're not going to like it, but this was indeed addressed in the newer movies, particularily 3.

[ket_the_jet]

I had thought quite a bit about the dead Jawas and the killing of Luke's aunt and uncle. But I really don't think of that as being any different than political torture, which happens all the time even in modern countries.

You are right Gil, but that was the only place that suggested a realistic number of people on the Death Star.

As for the builders of the Death Star, I don't think that they were military. Probably civil servants who were contracted by the government. Granted, it is true that they are never seen, but you must consider, that's a lot of Storm Troopers who need their uniforms shined. A station of that magnitude certainly had to have multiple food courts, movie theaters, petting zoos, adult entertainment stores...you know, things found around a normal military base. Gotta keep those soldiers happy!

I would think that if the General said they needed more people to build it, he wouldn't have meant people who walk around with hard plastic bulges.
-wtk

[MR. Lurtzy]

Don't forget that the Empire had enslaved the Wookies. They could've used them for building the Death Star.

[ket_the_jet]

Don't forget that the Empire had enslaved the Wookies. They could've used them for building the Death Star.

Sure, some. While slavery isn't directly stated at any point in the films, it is largely understood that Chewie was a former slave.

So the rebellion is now killing slaves.
-wtk

[MR. Lurtzy]

Sure, some. While slavery isn't directly stated at any point in the films, it is largely understood that Chewie was a former slave.

Well, if you consider some to be the entire population then yeah. Again this is another evil act that is so carelessly brushed away.

So the rebellion is now killing slaves.

There is no evidence that the Empire would keep such dangerous creatures on the Death Star once it was completed. And guess who it was that freed the Wookies from tyranny?

[ket_the_jet]

I personally don't agree with slavery. I think that it should be abolished. But I don't think it is evil. That is for a completely different other time.

There is also no evidence that the Empire would not keep them on the Death Star. The Death Star that I've specifically brought into question was the second one, where, I believe, the ratio of soldiers to non-combatants would have been very close to 4:1.
-wtk

[MR. Lurtzy]

the ratio of soldiers to non-combatants would have been very close to 4:1.
-wtk

Was this in one of the books? I've read a few of them, but since they all sucked, I won't be looking through them.

[ket_the_jet]

I stated that is what I believed. I am only basing this on the mass of the unit, the amount completed to that point, and the overall population.

The more I think about it, the more likely that the number of construction workers (slave or free) was probably several million. How many people did it take to build a pyramid? So take that number and multiply it by 200.
-wtk

[MR. Lurtzy]

I still wonder why they didn't use droids.

[Pepi]

Geonosis must have been shut down by that time. xD

[MR. Lurtzy]

Well, in the movie there were plenty of them just sitting around on the DS doing nothing.

[ket_the_jet]

I still wonder why they didn't use droids.

They probably had a good number of droids. But you also need electronic technicians, field service technicians, mechanics, configuration management specialists...

...all sorts of crap. And I definitely wouldn't want to take home a bartender and find out she was a robot. Especially if she had a virus.
-wtk