Unofficial Rulebook Discussion #8 (Aug 19 - Aug 22) -- Helpless

[Tbiesty]

This discussion and ruling is part of the series of discussions and rulings for an "Unofficial Rulebook" as described here.

This discussion will be open from Aug 19, 2010 - Aug 22, 2010.
The outcome of this discussion and ruling will be added to the "Unofficial Rulebook".

Discussion #8:

How should Helpless work with Sam, Bearer of Great Need and Frodo, Frenzied Fighter?    (previous discussion)

Option 1:
It can be played on Sam.  It that case, Sam is the Ring-bearer, with 5 resistance, but has no game text.

Option 2:
It should require to spot a "Ring-bearer" Frodo, since the intent of the card is really to prevent Sam from taking The One Ring if Frodo dies.

[Witchkingx5]

Option 1 seems pretty obvious, even though Sam is still Ring-bound and a Ring-Bearer and can make use of the ring. This case is sooo random that we can allow those noobs using Helpless in Expanded and make them hope they can just neutralize a Sam, BoG, don't we?

[mardukra]

#1

Sam, BoGN would lose his 'bonus' resistance and special ability.  He would obviously remain ring-bound as a 5 resistance ring bearer.

[Elessar's Socks]

I would suggest this be fixed on the rules end by saying the Ring-bearer's Ring-bearer and Ring-bound keywords cannot be removed or made to not apply.

[MR. Lurtzy]

the Ring-bearer's Ring-bearer and Ring-bound keywords cannot be removed or made to not apply.

Best fix imo.

[chompers]

the Ring-bearer's Ring-bearer and Ring-bound keywords cannot be removed or made to not apply.

Best fix imo.

Seems like a sound idea to me.

[Thranduil]

I would suggest that Ring-bearer should actually be removed from the list of loaded keywords and a new term made for it, like a Game Keyword, which can't be removed or cancelled. Same deal with Ring-bound.

[Tbiesty]

Option 1 it is.  The "Unofficial Rulebook" has been updated with a clarification about the Ring-bearer's Ring-bearer and Ring-bound keywords.