Flaw in Star Wars Plot (Episodes 4, 5, and 6 only)

[Pepi]

Agree...The world we live in isn't good by default. I even dare to say that it's worse than the Star Wars galaxy. At least there people knew who was the tyrant, who to fight against. Today we don't seem to know what's going on, yet things are getting from bad to worse.

[ket_the_jet]

A lot of people think that people are born innocent and are corrupted by the world.

I would disagree. I think we're little demon spawns and society barely does enough to keep most of us in line.
-wtk

[Gate Troll]

Just to prove that any position is arguable: World War II: The Moral Question.

[Pepi]

A lot of people think that people are born innocent and are corrupted by the world.

I would disagree. I think we're little demon spawns and society barely does enough to keep most of us in line.
-wtk

I asked u a coupple of times already, but never got the anwser. So here goes again. Where do you draw the line and say: "That's evil."?

[ket_the_jet]

Justice Potter Stewart, in Jacobellis v. Ohio (1964) said, "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it..."

So I guess that is it. I know it when I see it.
-wtk

[Pepi]

No offense, but let me correct u. U think u know it, when u see it.

[Gate Troll]

It is one thing for society to keep people in line. It is another to commit mass murder. Justify that.

[SomeRandomDude]

It is one thing for society to keep people in line. It is another to commit mass murder. Justify that.

It makes for a good plot?

[ket_the_jet]

Society doesn't commit anything. Society is not a tangible object, capable of acting verbs.

Do not confuse society with government. I think the biggest problem you (collectively) have is with the frame of the action. How many planets do you think the Empire rules over? I would suggest that the death of Alderaan is just a drop in the bucket for the Empire's rule. Does that make it right? Probably not, but that does legitimize the action to an extent. After all, a group of rebel terrorists has stolen schematics for the government center and has threatened to destroy it. How did that work out, Sir Robert Catesby?
-wtk

[MR. Lurtzy]

I'm sure if the rebels blew up a planet, that would make them evil.

[ket_the_jet]

If what the Empire did was evil, then the Rebel Alliance has been involved in their share of evil throughout the three films. I don't see any of you bitching about the Rebels blowing up not one, but two planet-sized, fully operated and operational government space stations.
-wtk

[Gate Troll]

TARKIN: The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us.
I've just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council
permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept
away.

TAGGE: That's impossible! How will the Emperor maintain control
without the bureaucracy?

TARKIN: The regional governors now have direct control over
territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this
battle station.

Basically the Death Star was being used to coerce the planets into line. "The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away." Apparently my comparison with Germany was too vague. In a nutshell, during the Nuremberg trials after the war, many top Germans accused the US of committing crimes as a way to excuse their own. Saying that the Rebellion must have committed crimes, but 'oh, blowing up a planet doesn't count because of the number of individuals murdered' hardly means that Empire is not evil. Call me a fool, but I failed to realize that every time someone said 'how about Alderaan, you know, the genocide part' and you instead attacked the rebellion I defended the rebellion instead of pressing the point. The rebellion could have murdered thousands and yadda yadda yadda, but regardless, the Empire is still evil. Murder is evil. After all, killing one person is cold blood is only wiping out an infinitesimal fraction of Earth's 6+ billion population, but is still considered evil. I suppose that is the key point. Is murder evil? I say it is, and thus, the Empire is guilty of murder. Let me put it in a logical syllogism:

The Empire is murdering.
Murdering is evil.
Thus, the Empire is Evil.

That is the basic 'A is B, B is C, thus A is C' and my argument fits it quite nicely. Unless you don't consider murder evil. Which opens up a whole new can of worms.

[MR. Lurtzy]

If what the Empire did was evil, then the Rebel Alliance has been involved in their share of evil throughout the three films. I don't see any of you bitching about the Rebels blowing up not one, but two planet-sized, fully operated and operational government space stations.
-wtk

I see that you keep calling the death stars "government space stations". Let's cut out the #$&*@!. They were made for for intimidating any planet which helped to destroy the Empire. The death stars didn't have civilians on them (at least none were seen in the movies, and that's all we are going by), only imperial soldiers, so I don't know why you keep bringning that up.

[Pepi]

I don't see any of you bitching about the Rebels blowing up not one, but two planet-sized, fully operated and operational government space stations.
-wtk

It was a weapon that destroyed a planet(planets if it would last longer, probably)...As far as the film goes, it didn't do anything else useful. And if u're going to bring "civilians on death star", let me stop u right there, because data about that is way out of your reach(which is the original trilogy).

[ket_the_jet]

Syllogism:
Destroying a government facility is murder.
Murder is evil.
Destroying a government facility is evil.

It works both ways. Do you legitimately think the guy who served sloppy joes in the mess hall deserved to die? Just some ordinary guy who needed a job and appreciated the security a job with the government provided.

Saying the Death Star was only useful for destroying planets is like saying that the Pentagon is only useful for destruction. It seemed to me like a meeting hall for the Empire's top minds, a port-and-station for the Empire's fleet, and a hub for governmental traffic. It had more top generals, not to mention the Emperor's top diplomat, than the Pentagon and it even housed the Emperor for a short amount of time. Not to mention the only time the Death Star was ever shown antagonizing anyone was when the threat of destruction via stolen blueprints (A New Hope) or straight-forward attack (Return of the Jedi) was looming.

I don't have a problem with ruling through fear. It is a tried-and-true method that elicits more emotions than any other form of rule that I can think of. You know what other ruler just wants to be feared? God. But that's another story.

Anyways, here's another light-hearted interjection to keep people from taking things personally.
-wtk